Throughout Excel's 40-year history, you've only been able to put one value per cell. In this announcement, we're excited to share how that's changing with...

276 points•luispa•5 days ago•196 comments•

196 comments

m1015 days ago
What would be a revolution in excel is if we could have probability distributions in cells. Right now all spreadsheets are fairly deterministic and we think that tells us something about the real world. Having an ability to make cells distributions (and then all resultant cells would be distributions too) would represent the uncertainty in the world better (and expose lots of interesting things like distributions of tails)
lorenzowood5 days ago
Guesstimate (https://getguesstimate.com) has been around for years. I assumed Excel and Google would incorporate its features quickly, but it never seems to have taken off.

Features:

- All cells are named (auto named if you don't set them)

- Cells can have single values, many types of probability distribution, or sample data

- Formulas also produce distributions as first class outputs, because calculation is a Monte Carlo sim

- Each cell also has a pop-up box that invites you to explain your reasoning -- built in documentation

It got so much right. Sample data particularly useful because you can build a probabilistic bottom-up forecast and then update it with real-world data.

bsenftner4 days ago
This is really amazing, and it reminds me of an Excel modification I did 24 years ago for an animation studio. They had around 3,000 digital artists and then about 200 support staff, and around 8 different productions moving through the studio at the same time. Each production was at some different stage of completion. The studio's production management staff spent a huge amount of time negotiating what staff was assigned to what productions, and the reasonings were all hazy and non-fact based. So I wrote what people would now call a deep learning system that mined all the accounting and production tracking records the studio had, and created probability distributions and confidence intervals for every individual and every task, and every combination of people and their combined tasks, and that all composited together into a giant predictive engine of real time whatif scenarios for the entire studio in different configurations.

It was used for a series of feature films you all probably saw: the Chronicles of Narnia series, the Scooby Doo live action CG films, the Garfield films with the CG Garfield, and Life of PI.

People both loved and hated it. They loved the insights into the studio's capabilities, and they hated thinking through how the thing operated, and they hated the thought process of constructing a new whatif scenario, because they had to THINK.

gregdeon5 days ago
Wow, this is incredibly cool. I can't believe this stuff hasn't been ported into Excel.
nextaccountic4 days ago
First thing that came to mind is: can this model correlation between each cell, or does it assume that all cells are independent?

For example, in this https://www.getguesstimate.com/models/2205 hours of sleep per night is perhaps correlated with hours per weekday commuting. You might not have the data, but if you do, it could improve the probability distribution in the "weekday hours occupied" cell

Zarathustra305 days ago
What would this look like? Whenever I need something like that, I just stick each parameter in its own cell and use functions from there.

I would love an easier way to communicate to tech/math-illiterate CEOs that worst case, average case, and best case are different things, but must all be planned for.

CobaltFire5 days ago
When I did Process Improvement we used MiniTab for this.

I honestly was not a fan of that program and would have loved to be able to use Excel, but there are so many statistical things you just can't do in it.

Yossarrian225 days ago
Its a paid add-on but @Risk gives the functionality you're looking for
m1015 days ago
As a number of the comments have suggested there are a number of Monte Carlo methods (including this addin) but I was hoping that someone would make one which calculated based on random variables and output a resultant random variable, over brute force monte carlo. Monte Carlo is also somewhat slow, but doing the maths analytically should be fast.
balderdash4 days ago
Check out @Risk and crystal ball - both have been around for a long time.

I should also say what’s really nice is you can define the shape of the probability distribution and parameters for random variables, as well as the correlation of different random variables. Both are effective but also feel dated these days.

https://lumivero.com/products/at-risk/

https://www.oracle.com/applications/crystalball/

Scharkenberg4 days ago
Off-topic: managing @Risk licenses in a fully on-prem, no-internet environment has been such a pain in the neck.
amanzi5 days ago
I was skeptical, but this looks genuinely useful. I can already think of some use-cases for this, e.g. a spreadsheet I was working on recently had a list of user, and then a comma-separated list of software apps they were using. It was a bit of a nightmare to parse, but the example in the article would definitely help with filtering the list.
ukadakal4 days ago
Technically, this is a huge deal for Excel because it represents a fundamental change from the traditional one-value-per-cell model. From a practical usage perspective, though, it may not be as revolutionary as it initially sounds.

I was playing around with it this morning and tested it on a fairly large Excel model with lots of spillable dynamic arrays used as intermediate calculations. I was able to replace those spill ranges with arrays in cells, and all the formulas referencing those results continued to work nicely. In many cases, enabling it was as simple as adding {} around the existing dynamic array formula. That huge workbook immediately looked much cleaner without all those helper spill ranges taking up space.

I think that's where the immediate value is. It simplifies helper ranges and intermediate calculations, reduces potential #SPILL! issues, and makes complex models easier to build, understand, and maintain.

It could also be interesting when combined with LET and LAMBDA, allowing custom formulas to work with arrays without exposing all their intermediate results across the worksheet.

I think it will become considerably more useful, once it supports features like charts, Power Query, and data validation.

nxobject4 days ago
I won't be sad to see the end of spilling array formulas -- they were such a hack that often didn't play well with how spreadsheets were conventionally structured in the industry I worked in, as forms.

I do hope that they add more compound types to cells -- sets may be good as well.

thunderbong5 days ago
Over the years, I've seen many comments dismissing Excel. But as many people who've worked in enterprises know, Excel is a godsend for manipulating reams of data for non-programmers who can think analytically. Of course, complex formulae and extensive VBA functions become a tech debt over time. But implemented properly, it provides a solution which doesn't require huge management approvals and increases productivity.

I'm sure that these new features will find a lot of use amongst many people. And seeing these Excel innovations is heartening.

tombert5 days ago
Even as a programmer I find Excel pretty useful for anything involving numbers. The fact that everything is reactive allows for very fast iteration when testing stuff.

I wouldn't necessarily want to maintain a really complicated spreadsheet but I stop using spreadsheets once it gets anywhere near "complicated". It's still valuable for what I use for.

alightsoul5 days ago
I work at an airline where Claude is replacing data analysis tools like excel, data visualization tools like power bi, all that's left is dynatrace because it does it all automatically like Claude does. Many bespoke data processing or data analysis tools for non programmers are being replaced by Claude suscriptions, like excel, power bi, spss, tableau, those are the most used I think. No Python data analysis nor big data tools like pandas, numpy, apache superset are being replaced though
cgio5 days ago
I would argue using Claude in replacing a spreadsheet is potentially more of a tech debt than the spreadsheet itself. Now if you would use Claude to build a point application that performs the same standard analysis it might be better, but only marginally so.
ukadakal4 days ago
I love Claude and use it for many things, including analyzing and manipulating Excel files. But I’m not convinced that replacing spreadsheets with Claude is the right approach.

Over the years, we’ve seen many platforms promise to replace spreadsheets for a particular use case or industry. Businesses adopt them and push users away from Excel, but in many cases, those same users eventually find their way back to Excel to do the exact same work.

My concern is that we may end up creating another dual-system maintenance problem, where some people use AI and others continue using Excel for the same business process. Over time, the two versions inevitably diverge, potentially creating more problems than they solve.

Excel is much stickier than most people realize. I think the more interesting opportunity is figuring out how AI and Excel can work together, rather than trying to replace one with the other.

eastbound5 days ago
The other aspects is the new generation doesn't understand it. During interviews in marketing but also for a medical field expert, I often ask "make a small budget so you'll see how your bonus will work", and even the PhD, which is the top academic level, couldn't use a basic formula. How do they deal with data during a PhD? "In Prism", she said.

Same for marketing students and, although it's a lower academic level, they still need Excel for prospect lists.

conductr5 days ago
Recent grads at all levels always suffer from this problem. The issue is they’ve not needed to use it with enough frequency in their academic lives to build the knowledge or muscle memory. Things have improved a lot in past 10 years or so, but it’s even true with many Finance and Accounting grads (that’s who I hire). Many of them just have never seen real world business data and working with it so different than the contrived information they had seen in coursework. That said give them $15 to spend on Udemy. Then, give them a few assignments, with real world business data. And most people pick it up pretty quickly.
throwaway73565 days ago
A PhD is not for teaching about specific software tools, and hopefully even less so about legacy software from the 80's.

If you want people to be able to use Excel or service a mechanical typewriter, you need to spend extra effort to teach them.

SebastianKra5 days ago
I'm one of those. Excel's ease of use isn't relevant if you already know how to use Python / Jupyter / DuckDB / whatever.

The mental model of describing a series of reproducible transformations on normalized tables is more intuitive to me.

Excel lets you do too many things. As a result, I mostly see spreadsheets that aren't much more machine-parsanle than a word document.

We had to write a score-table at a party lately, and a while ago, and I managed to get it working with DataSpell faster, than it took us to figure out how Google Sheets stupid date-parsing works.

Propelloni5 days ago
So, Excel is just the poor man's shadow IT? I like that picture.
agumonkey5 days ago
By the time it takes to make a custom filtered table non extensible UI for an api, the excel guy is finished three times over
herbst5 days ago
I mean spreadsheets are amazing, but excel is still a shitty piece of software (in my books)
stock_toaster5 days ago
I recall excel being decent once upon a time, back in the early 2000's, before the ribbon interface was added.
jcoc6115 days ago
The next step is to allow adding a spreadsheet into a cell, and introduce infinite zoom
pjmlp1 day ago
OLE

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