Car Is a Smartphone on Wheels. Here's Who's Listening

Car Is a Smartphone on Wheels. Here's Who's Listening automatictransmission.khoury.northeastern.edu

107 points•rafaelc•about 3 hours ago•93 comments•

#heres #car #listening #whos #smartphone #wheels #heres whos #whos listening

93 comments

hattarabout 2 hours ago

I currently drive a mid 2000s Ford truck, which runs great and meets my needs, but lately I got interested in minivans/people carriers. I pretty quickly realized that newer vehicles seem to not just record, but export a lot of driving data.

The minivan market is small. There are really only 4-5 available and every single one sends telemetry data from the car and makes it hard/impossible to opt out of selling your data. Additionally, without pretty extensive work there is no means of physically disabling the telemetry, which forces you to trust they'll honor your opt out request (vs re-enabling it with some update).

I'm clearly in the vast minority on this, but it's so frustrating that there are no options beyond buying and installing a third-party bypass to disable this type of tracking. Worse, I'm aware that the absence of data is data itself. Is my insurance going raise my rates because my vehicle won't provide telemetry for them to buy?

sippingabonedryabout 2 hours ago

Ford until recently sold a minivan that was ugly as sin (looked like an '87 Vanagon) because it was a panel van with seats added. They are popular with the campervan community.

As it was essentially a commercial vehicle meant for upfitters turning them into work vans for electricians and plumbers, it would probably be easiest of all to disable telemetry.

From what I can find, permanently disabling FordPass at the hardware level is as simple as unplugging the cell modem or pulling its fuse.

renjimenabout 1 hour ago

I have the Ford Transit Connect "Wagon". It's a 2016 model with no internet connectivity. It can fit a double mattress in the back and is tall enough to sit up on the bed, unlike nearly every SUV. I cannot recommend it enough for an everyday vehicle that doubles as a camper.

Of course, Ford discontinued this model in North America because their margins are better on trucks and SUVs.

As for the aesthetics, we really like it. It's certainly a darn sight better looking than a truck or SUV, which are all aggressive-looking pedestrian killers.

renjimenabout 1 hour ago

If you don't mind used, the Ford Transit Connect Wagon is an excellent option for an everyday vehicle that doubles as a camper. We have one and love it. It fits a double mattress with plenty of headroom room to sit up in bed. Ford discontinued it in 2023, hence the used requirement, but I believe you can turn off the internet connectivity on that model. We have a 2016 model (still going strong after 150,000km!) which has no internet connectivity, thankfully.

kulahan29 minutes ago

> Worse, I'm aware that the absence of data is data itself.

The Burrow, Franz Kafka

detourdogabout 1 hour ago

By a slightly used one that has a 3g modem. My 2018 car no longer can phone home.

asdffabout 1 hour ago

That is interesting that they fail safe and don't just brick the car though. Maybe you can still go with a newer car but just wrap the antennae in foil or maybe just unplug it.

ThinkingGuy28 minutes ago

This is the way.

mahboiabout 2 hours ago

  if an owner decides they are uncomfortable with the data sharing described within them, they are faced with (arguably) unfair choices:
  - 01 accept the agreements regardless of their concerns
  - 02 stop using their car's connected-vehicle features - which includes remote start, the app, and other very useful features
  - 03 stop using the vehicle entirely

Easy, I take #2. Is that it? This whole time I thought the article was talking about telemetry the car sends regardless.

technothrasherabout 2 hours ago

I have essentially gone with option 2 in my Audi A3. Every time I turn the car on, it puts up a dialog that warns me that I've made the terrible, terrible decision to not allow remote data and forces me to say, "no, do not turn it on for me now," before I can do anything else on the screen. Every, single, time.

eitallyabout 1 hour ago

This, but worse, happened with my inlaws when they purchased a new Lexus (IIRC, a 2025 RX350). It has whatever kind of built in navigation & traffic feature but they wanted to use Android Auto. You can do that, but not until after you go through Lexus' vehicle/driver registration process to enable their built in system. If you don't, not only will neither AA nor CarPlay work, but if you try to use the built in nav it will fail with a superimposed modal after a couple of minutes to nag you into creating an account.

mahboiabout 1 hour ago

Disappointing but not surprising. Those touchscreen interfaces are usually full of nags. I liked the Versa I rented recently cause its "low-end" radio system was the only thing that let me listen to the damn radio without jumping through hoops. Toyota's is an L even though their cars are better otherwise.

hollow-moeabout 2 hours ago

Like #2 prevents the spying. Let's ask some smart TV brands executives their opinion on the matter.

TheBozzCLabout 1 hour ago

"We own the infotainment system"

I've thought about what I can possibly do if I ever need to buy a modern car. Bring my own cell phone tower spoofer? Threaten to not buy the car if they don't disconnect the antennas first?

It's good that these things are starting to catch the public's interest. Gamers' Nexus' exposé on LG TVs. The lawsuits against car manufacturers for selling driving data (indirectly) to insurance companies. The pushback against Flock. I wonder what else is needed to actually move the needle globally.

I see a good sign in that Gen Alpha seems to find using disconnected devices to be trendy. I hope it's a trend that stays long term.

mahboiabout 1 hour ago

Smart TVs need wifi to be smart though. The cars have cell modems.

plucabout 1 hour ago

On top of that you must never take it for servicing at a dealership since that's another point they can do a data export if your car isn't always-on.

deepsunabout 2 hours ago

> As one notable exception, Honda improved its data collection practices to prevent sending precise geolocation to a third party associated with user tracking.

I know what my next car will be.

rdtscabout 2 hours ago

I already like Honda and own models before they were connected to the cell network. But they are still not 100% there for current models:

> Amplitude received from HondaLink: VIN, Location. Cross-context tracking: Amplitude received the VIN plus Location from HondaLink — an unresettable identifier tied directly to other personal data.

They are so close they should say "fuck it, we're going to be different, we'll disable all the crap" and then market the heck out of it.

Barbing35 minutes ago

I like it.

A “disable spying in just a few taps” approach (“your data, your choice” it’s just opt-out) would catch my attention and they could still sell 90% of everyone’s data since people don’t touch defaults.

tartoranabout 2 hours ago

Hope to see a new market for disabling telemetry and phonehome features from cars. It should be legal to do so, if you own the car I suppose. I'm thinking that rigth now few pople even know how much spying their new car does to them but this will change and as awareness grows more and more people will want to do it.

hellon3wheelsabout 1 hour ago

I'd rather see it as a standard feature than as a new market.

ourmandaveabout 2 hours ago

Ha ha, you fools! No one is collecting my data from my 22-year-old Scion while I drive past Flock cameras every day.

Wait...

eckelhestenabout 2 hours ago

There’s “oh he’s at the grocery store” data,

and then there’s “he’s driving in a way we don’t like, let’s make him pay more for his insurance” data.

asdffabout 1 hour ago

Don't forget the banal in comparison "we've locked him out of hardware already installed in the car with a perpetual software license check"

unethical_ban38 minutes ago

The fight is on multiple fronts.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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