I'm not a computer science guy, but I had a play with Jev and found it impressive. It allowed me to offer non-technical researchers the ability to classify arbitrary things their participants enter, without prior…

13 points•effisfor•4 days ago•19 comments•
I'm not a computer science guy, but I had a play with Jev and found it impressive. It allowed me to offer non-technical researchers the ability to classify arbitrary things their participants enter, without prior training or classification, at near instant speed, and negligible cost. My users may find that very helpful in the qualitative research world.

I showed them an innocuous working example of how they could classify thousands of participant entries as "mentioning Italian food" whether it mentioned "pasta", "penne", "rigatone", etc etc. Jev did this task with high confidence, and showed it could differentiate between the inverse, eg had very low confidence when I switch entry to mentioning "hamburgers". I find that a very useful tool to pass on to non-technical colleagues.

But on HN, there are lots of much more qualified people saying Jev is a con, a step backwards, or bonkers that people are impressed. Will one of them tell me plainly what software was doing this prior to Jev, and the like? I don't doubt it existed, but I never came across it. I'm interested to hear from people more expert than myself.

To be precise, software must be able to: - Classify thousands of entries with arbitrary themes or topics, even if entry doesn't mention that theme or topic directly, with high enough confidence to be useful. - Do it with thousands of entries in 0-3seconds. - Do it at negligible cost, eg sub 0.1cents

19 comments

softwaredoug3 days ago
A lot of the hate is in the same spirit of the infamous hacker news comment discounting Dropbox because you can just setup an FTP server to do the same thing[1]

In this case, its people who have built BERT classifiers for years, pointing out you can just fine-tune some model to classify. Of course that's true, and still have value, but its not exactly turnkey. And Jev is surprisingly high quality at what its built for.

1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224

sky22243 days ago
I frequently have found myself saying, "People pay for that?! But xyz already exists," in the past, but overtime I've learned that (1) marketing is important and (2) if something reduces friction enough to get the wheels turning on something you're trying to achieve, there's always someone (actually a lot of people) out there willing to pay for it even if it's measurably worse than a self-scaffolded solution or even a really good solution that requires a lot of tinkering to get things rolling.
lolakutty1 day ago
>marketing is important..

Marketing is the only thing that is important. Everything else is expendable...With good enough marketing, you don't even need a product to start selling!

brudgers3 days ago
Beware of “just.”
kypro2 days ago
I'm normally happy to jump onboard the HN hate train, but I think this time it's more that the launch was full of marketing slop about AGI and positioning Jev as an LLM competitor, when as you note its basically just a general purpose classifier.

This isn't to knock the team at all, but imo the most impressive thing about Jev is that no one did it before. The second most impressive thing is that there was such a large number of people that didn't realise that classifiers were useful.

Jemaclus3 days ago
My understanding is that the underlying tech is pretty old and well-established. So if you understand those older models, this is old news. A lot of the negativity is basically "yeah, this is old stuff."

But what Jev actually has done that's new and interesting is that it allows you to define a new semantic decision at runtime in natural language, without training a model for that task, and get a fast, cheap, bounded, probability-bearing result designed to be consumed directly by software.

In other words, you don't have to fine tune a model. You should if super high quality is really important to you -- but you should also do that with other things that people reach for LLMs for as well. But for the rest of us for whom good enough is, well, good enough, and who aren't interested in training or fine-tuning models? Jev unlocks a lot off-the-shelf.

You should be impressed. It's doing something more novel than the haters suggest.

ex-aws-dude2 days ago
> It's doing something more novel than the haters suggest

How is that different than https://www.nobodywho.ai/posts/jev-in-25-lines/

Couldn't you always get probabilities for a fixed set of tokens without training a new model?

daly3 days ago
JEV is rule-based programming with a better pattern matcher. Charles Forgy did this back in the 80s.
bigyabai4 days ago
> what software was doing this prior to Jev

BeRT, BART and FLAN-T5, for text classification. All of those models are ~half a decade old now, are based on the transformer model, and small enough to run locally. They're not perfectly SOTA, but perform quite well in embedded applications. Fine for low-stakes stuff, I think.

Image classifiers are a hugely competitive space. You've got BeiT, DeiT, MobileOne, ConvNext, FastViT and several more models that all support image classification pipelines.

effisfor4 days ago
Thanks for quick reply. I downloaded FLAN for comparison and you are quite right, gives similar results, with the benefit of privacy and self-sovereignty in serving the model.

So other than untestable claims of _how_ Jev generates responses, it's main feature right now is its API design?

minimaxir4 days ago
You're allowed to be excited about new technology.
bigyabai4 days ago
What are you allowed to feel when it's old technology?
idjiedjwjdjiej4 days ago
Anything you want. Do as you please, stop waiting for the internet to tell you how to feel about things.
brudgers3 days ago
Excited or not.

You don’t need permission to feel how you feel.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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