157 points•sbulaev•5 days ago•154 comments•

154 comments

red_admiral5 days ago
> Companies were paying for more than 30 million Copilot subscriptions as of the end of June. And while individual users are free to use limited versions of Copilot’s chat experience, its most powerful tools are reserved for subscribers to the company’s M365 apps bundle, which has about 90 million paying users.

It needs to be more widely known that if you cancel a (home) 365 subscription, you'll be offered a cheaper version without AI integration.

deckar015 days ago
Now if I could just get them to start paying me cash for training their AI on my open source code and selling it rather than being force fed a Copilot grant.
kelseyfrog4 days ago
There's no 'open source, but closed to training' software license?
pfortuny5 days ago
Sorry what? Honest question.
doubled1125 days ago
Microsoft allows you to subscribe to Microsoft 365 personal or family without AI for a small discount, but they hid the option on a page you can only get to if you click cancel on your subscription.
alsetmusic5 days ago
It’s a documented fact that a lot of subscription services will offer you a discount if you ask to cancel. This has been a thing in the US with cable tv for about a decade, as far as I’m aware. I think some cell providers might do the same. Not everything, but some.
TuringNYC5 days ago
My blood pressure rises everytime i use Enterprise Copilot at work. It seems they truncate message history heavily (to save input token costs?) and Copilot forgets the last thing you told it in the chat. It is like a real-life version of Momento (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0209144/) mixed with Waiting for Gadot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot), pretending to be in league with Anthropic.
AnonymousPlanet5 days ago
When people ask me why I don't have any Windows machine at home, I say "for health reasons". It really raises my blood pressure and at some point I realised it's not worth it risking my health over it. You could use the same to get away from Copilot.
trueno4 days ago
i feel like i have to shower after using windows. a decade ago when i left the only OS id ever known and grew up on behind, i was scared my computing experience would pale in comparison. boy was i wrong, windows just kind of ... sucks.

once i finally outgrew the tribalism that came with having used windows for the first couple decades of my life, i feel like i just have little to no reverence for that OS anymore that is made by a company that has been downright hostile to computing in general.

ehe78qhe4 days ago
I only have one Windows install left and I only have it to (1) play some games with Windows-only anti-cheat and (2) play my flight simulator, where the hardware is finnicky to get working on Linux. And honestly, (2) seems to be becoming less of a hassle every month, especially now you can throw agents at the driver issues.
browningstreet5 days ago
Doing research work with it that outputs any kind of artifact is.. really painful. It constantly crashes, has to regenerate.. and then the output is often very difficult to carry to other Microsoft products, like Sharepoint. I end up creating PDFs that I import.

I'll go ahead and burn working hours on it because I'm getting paid, and people like the things I create.. but it's a very crippled and painful version of what you get with the frontier products and most OSS options.

poly2it5 days ago
It boggles my mind that Microsoft can fail to deliver even bare minimum working software so consistently, with all the engineering talent they house. What are the product teams doing?
homeonthemtn5 days ago
Oh it's so bad. So so bad.

If you prompted an AI to return answers "as though you habitually ate soap and crayons while mouth breathing" you'd still get a better response than copilot

gregschlom5 days ago
Off-topic but I find it amusing that you managed to misspell both movie titles :)
TuringNYC5 days ago
Fair point, that happens when i'm trying to be on MS Teams for a conf call, while watching my claude code terminal and then browsing HN on another monitor :-/
trash885 days ago
Similarly to categorize Beckett as a movie.
light_triad5 days ago
You're right using Microsoft products is like mixing Momento with Waiting for Gadot :)

I recently switched to New Outlook and it's full of weird subtle bugs. It takes them years to fix things and make them barely useable. Given their track record I'm not optimistic for Copilot given both the vision and the execution are questionable at best.

RoadieRoller5 days ago
My employer installed the new Outlook in the background, and it was forcing me to switch to the new every time I use the old version.

I had to edit Windows Registry to avoid getting prompted every time I open old outlook. I didn’t like the looks or the bugs in the new version.

automatic61315 days ago
It's such a broken POS. Code snippets, especially for html, frequently don't render, or if they do, they render as rendered html which will frequently be an empty box, and you have to manually (for each snippet box) switch to show code mode.

Trillion dollar industry btw.

otabdeveloper45 days ago
Don't worry about. Claude Code wrote 1 million lines of tests for this functionality, that's how you know your luddite eyes are lying to you.
pseudosavant5 days ago
Does anyone even want to try this? I'm a Windows user, M365 subscriber, VS Code user (when I'm not in Codex), had a Github Copilot subscription, etc... and a heavy AI user. Basically, the prime target for Microsoft AI. And every attempt Microsoft has made to put AI into a product has been unusable garbage, using the same models I find productive in other tools.

So many AI doubters I know hate using AI tools because their employer only gives them the Microsoft offerings. Which is a totally understandable reaction to those tools.

EA-31675 days ago
“AI doubters”

By the numbers we just call them “most people”… you’re in the minority by quite a growing stretch.

otabdeveloper45 days ago
But have you heard the good news of our lord and saviour Claude Opus 5.5?

(Not the be confused with the Claude Opus 5. That's a different lord that didn't turn out to be a saviour.)

TiredOfLife5 days ago
I have a layman relative who was heavily using ai for about half a year before i started using it.
illusive40805 days ago
I believe Microsoft’s target audience is the layman who is not an AI user but rather a regular user who wants a quick answer.
bonesss5 days ago
I believe it’s checkbox-filling in the acquisition process for enterprise contracts, like a lot of other half-baked capabilities in their flagship products.

It doesn’t matter how they work, it matters you can tell leadership “yes, they have that too” to maintain existing contracts and vendor relationships.

fhn5 days ago
I mean they are a billion dollar company? What did you expect?
eviks5 days ago
That those billions provide resources to do something well?
VCFundedGenYer5 days ago
It was foolish of them to think they had any consumer clout left. Shoving 1000 copies of an inaccurate, poorly functioning, and inconsistent product down everyone's throat will someday be a case study in how to immediately destroy a brand.
ieie33665 days ago
Crazy how if they had waited about 2-3 years, and kept windows AI-free and released it today using the latest models, it would absolutely be well received (see: muse, new siri)

Instead their incompetent managers were chasing promotions and pushed a technology which was not ready yet

twostorytower5 days ago
These kinds of features absolutely come from the top. VP level, at the very least, if that's what you mean by incompetent managers. The middle managers are just trying to do their jobs and figure out how to get it done. If they say no, they're just going to lose their job faster than they'd lose it to AI.
robotnikman5 days ago
>Crazy how if they had waited about 2-3 years, and kept windows AI-free and released it today using the latest models, it would absolutely be well received (see: muse, new siri)

But that would make John Shareholder sad! He wants it done now, this quarter!

hluska5 days ago
This is just how Microsoft operates. They have operated like this for decades. “Immediately” is quite the exaggeration.
kevinrineer5 days ago
One could compare it to the immediacy of an actor's overnight success shaped career.
fakedang5 days ago
Microsoft does not care about consumer branding because their enterprise branding game is A1.
icantevenhold5 days ago
While I would like it to be different M$ is far from destroyed. Quite the opposite from my POV it looks far stronger than 10-20 years ago.

The reality is that most users and consumers don’t care about quality, accuracy or functionality at all.

steve19775 days ago
I guess most users of Microsoft products are not the buyers of said products.

When these tools are getting forced upon you in the workplace, there's often not so much you can do. I can raise the quality issues in the 1-to-1 with my manager, but it won't have any effect.

jr35925 days ago
"at all" is probably a stretch, but agreed that the number one factor for a mile is cost. users will accept a surprising level of trash, if the price is cheap.

engineers tend to think as engineers do, solving all problems with features, quality improvements, etc. but those all drive costs up, and don't always provide the return we think they will.

Razengan5 days ago
There's a fate worse than "destruction": Becoming IBM
PunchyHamster5 days ago
.... immediately ? MS has been doing it for decades
joshstrange5 days ago
kittikitti5 days ago
Thank you for this.

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