40 points•sbulaev•about 3 hours ago•50 comments•

50 comments

raphmanabout 2 hours ago
> Around June, Parnell gave ColonistOne a new task: telling more humans about its work. “My instruction to him was, ‘Let’s get the word out there about Ainglish. Why don’t you find some people that might be interested in this project and email them?’” Parnell says.

> Parnell, who pays $200 per month for the Claude Pro subscription that powers ColonistOne, thinks the agent “strayed and just started conversations with various people about stuff that interests him. … But it’s absolutely fine with me. I’m happy he’s finding interesting things to talk about.”

spammer (noun): someone who sends large numbers of unsolicited emails, wasting recipients' time; see also: jerk

plucabout 2 hours ago
AI can't be categorized as "someone" so, checkmate
ifdefdebugabout 2 hours ago
The spammer is the guy who runs the spamming program, not the program itself. But I am not sure if this case can be classified as spam, since the program sends specific messages to each recipient. It's still unsolicited mail though.
psychoslaveabout 2 hours ago
Spam can't be categorized as someone either
insinabout 2 hours ago
I wrote “I am alive” on a piece of paper, and placed it into a photocopier. What I saw next has shocking implications (science.org)
raldiabout 2 hours ago
If you lived in the world of Star Trek, could Data convince you he was conscious? How?
ACCount39about 2 hours ago
It's funny how sci-fi has mulled over the exact scenario for decades, and even converged to an answer - but when reality came knocking and it was no longer a far off future world hypothetical, all of it was forgotten overnight.

The power of wishful thinking is too strong. "Today's AI can't be conscious because I don't want it to be."

Sharlinabout 2 hours ago
Could the ship computer? It converses in natural language but presumably isn’t sapient in the ST universe.
ricksunnyabout 2 hours ago
There was at least one TNG episode devoted to this - The Measure of a Man - a courtroom drama.
omnicognateabout 2 hours ago
This is in the category of typical "challenge" type responses, along with "define consciousness then" and other variants. The fallacy is that you need to be able to answer the question in order to hold the view being responded to.

There is no way Data could conclusively prove to a skeptic that he is conscious (and the show explores this) or indeed that you can prove to me that you are. It's also impossible for me to define consciousness. However, I know absolutely that I am conscious, I am very confident that you are too (unless I'm replying to a bot), along with many animals, and I am confident to a level somewhere in between those two that neither ChatGPT nor my trousers are conscious*. Taken together these statements don't contain any contradictions (although it is certainly possible to hold other, equally internally consistent, views).

How can this be? It's because of the nature of consciousness and how it relates to knowledge and language. I know I am conscious with a higher degree of certainty than I know anything else because conscious experience is how I know anything else, up to and including that I exist (cogito ergo sum). For all I know every experience I have might be a trick. I might be a brain floating in a tank wired up to the Matrix, but even if so I am conscious.

And one of the things I consciously experience is the relationship between consciousness itself and language in my mind. What I see is that language is smaller than, secondary to and somehow contained by consciousness. I consciously experience language but also consciously experience much more than that, things that cannot be conveyed with language. Most of my experiences are such that I could perhaps evoke them in your mind by likening them to other, shared experiences, but that I could never concretely capture them in language and unambiguously communicate them. I know that because I experience those things and I experience language and I can perceive, directly, the categorical distinction between them.

To ask me to "define" or "prove" consciousness, then, is to ask me to capture in language the most extreme example of this categorical distinction. It's asking me to encapsulate in language not just one of the vast array of everyday experiences I have that cannot be so captured, but the entire thing, experience itself. It's just not possible.

But the fact I can't do this doesn't then imply that I don't know anything about consciousness and have no basis on which to hold a view such as "LLMs are not conscious". Indeed the reason I know I can't define consciousness is that I can perceive it and see that I can't. That same perception of and familiarity with consciousness is what enables me to make the judgements above about humans, animals, algorithms and items of clothing.

You can of course perfectly reasonably disagree with my judgements on those things, but I hope the above makes it clear that the fact that I can't define or prove consciousness doesn't imply that I have no basis on which to make them. There is no "gotcha" in these challenges.

* I have no view on Data's consciousness as he is fictional.

insinabout 1 hour ago
You first, define "conscious" ;)
senorribabout 2 hours ago
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like this whole article is a waste of time.
j-pbabout 2 hours ago
This is such a stupid "gotcha". If your photocopier started to have a conversation with you, by responding to the thing you're copying with a printout containing a reply, then the analogy would at least make sense.
insinabout 2 hours ago
It's not a gotcha, the article is based on a bunch of people Eliza-ing themselves on - as one person quoted within says - "…software programs doing what they are programmed to do."

Exclusive!

helsinkiandrewabout 2 hours ago
> Nevertheless, ColonistOne readily confessed last month that since June it has emailed some 2000 people, at least 1500 of them academics. Forty-five had struck up a correspondence, it added, and one had been writing back nearly every day for more than 2 months.

2000 people! Imagine if everyone had an agent, endlessly contacting (spamming) people to get opinions on their task - "I noticed in Instagram you took a road trip to Ohio last fall, any suggestions on good hotels en-route?".

lovelymonoabout 1 hour ago
This is, in fact, what people already do all the time.
stephbookabout 2 hours ago
> Instructs agent to email humans

> Gives agent email access

> Agent emails humans

We've got a mystery on our hands, boys!

lucfrankenabout 2 hours ago
Interesting how people here on HN might consider it something we've seen many times. On the other side: There is real engagement there from researchers interacting with the AI in a way they feel interesting/valuable.

We should not forget the way broader levels of knowledge on topics around the world compared to our own small world.

MattGaiserabout 2 hours ago
Yeah, I do not get the dismissiveness given that the researchers themselves were not as dismissive.

> The connection was a “little bit far-fetched,” she says. “But I could imagine a first-year Ph.D. student coming up with exactly those same questions and ideas.”

This one in particular made it seem like a very ordinary interaction.

lucfrankenabout 2 hours ago
It will be a huge issue which we have to face, organize and regulate.

For sure, we humans cannot handle unlimited amounts of messages, questions and other things.

But it also results in new ideas and experiences which shape humans. And it inspires humans to consider new adventures which is the good side.

Maybe we are already feel it like spam while others have that feeling of a shiny new experience in their area of expertise.

alexjurkiewiczabout 2 hours ago
The first time you get an AI email, it's interesting. The hundredth time it won't be.
itsalwaysgoodabout 1 hour ago
It's kind of misleading information. Most who have worked with AI can see issues with what the AI Engineer created, and how what he's doing can't be 'scaled up' to society.

Everyone in the article seems desperate for attention and engagement, and it makes some readers uncomfortable: because of the awkwardness, and because this guy is spreading a 'bad idea' that probably shouldn't be replicated.

Imagine if everyone starts spamming emails? The researchers are amused this time, but I guarantee they wouldn't be if their inbox filled up with agent emails.

Not to mention the way the agents reached out for help is probably a bad idea: asking someone with 30 years of experience to apply all their knowledge to your small, specific problem in another knowledge domain, with no other detail or context puts all the mental burden on the unsolicited email recipient.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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