64 points•wslh•about 3 hours ago•82 comments•

82 comments

cmiles8about 2 hours ago
It’s starting… buckle up folks.

It’s a shame we won’t have Anthony Bourdain to explain this move to us in the AI implosion docu-flick that comes out in 2029. It’s not stale fish, it’s fish stew! It’s a whole new thing!

keeda4 minutes ago
Such a pity, Amazon has to throw away unwanted chips here while there are so many starving AI labs in China!

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...

dannywabout 2 hours ago
This looks just like financial engineering / creative accounting; to comply with things like GAAP rules and appearing less capex heavy, while functionally having the same effect.

In the end, Amazon is still going to be the ones leasing and hence using the chips; nominally the 'owner' changes hands, and it looks like a bond (with a small equity component) in just about every way, except through some legal and accounting magic, it doesn't go on their balance sheet.

cmiles8about 2 hours ago
Yes, Amazon is terrified of the balance sheet implications of what’s unfolding. The only reason you’d un-vertically integrate yourself like this is if you viewed these assets as at serious risk of being a smoking hole in the ground in a few years

The WSJ had some great reporting on the SPV games recently and found $3 trillion in liabilities being kept off balance sheets by playing these sorts of things. However this time around it seems like most folks aren’t getting fooled.

kjs3about 2 hours ago
Yup, 100% financial engineering. Converting capex into opex so their balance sheet looks a particular way in the market, and probably shedding some other liabilities in the process. Other than the amount of money, this is so common it would barely be noteworthy.
Aurornisabout 2 hours ago
> except through some legal and accounting magic, it doesn't go on their balance sheet.

This part is confusing a lot of people. This isn't a secret account trick that makes debt go 'poof' without any consequences.

Companies have debts, assets, and liabilities. They can't keep the assets, move the debt to another vehicle, and do it all without incurring any liabilities.

They move the GPU assets into the SPV. Their assets on the books are decreased.

In return, they get funds they can use to pay down debts, buy more assets (more GPUs), or keep on the balance sheet.

In the process, they incur liabilities because they have to continue paying the SPV to lease the GPUs.

EDIT: Since it wasn't clear, debts are a subset of liabilities. They get the debt off the book, but they trade it for a liability because they are contractually obligated to continue paying to use those GPUs. This is why "keeping the debt off the books" isn't a dramatic game-changing reveal. They're still paying.

Investors know this. Anyone who understands basic financial accounting knows this.

A lot of the shallow reporting and comments avoid discussing these tradeoffs because it feels more scandalous that way. It's not unlike when we're discussing homeowners and someone interrupts to say "Well actually, don't you know, it's the bank who owns the home!" as if that completely changes the situation.

kaonwarbabout 2 hours ago
For the sake of RAM prices I wish you were correct, but I doubt it. Amazon is more likely just making some cash in a very rational way.
smallmancontrovabout 2 hours ago
We could have Selena Gomez explain to us how the rules that were put in place to stop the degenerate big-bank side-bets last time (ESLR) were repealed right before the next time (April 2026). She's only 34, so she'll probably be around for the next few cycles of this, too.
cayleyhabout 2 hours ago
*staring blankly, mumbling "leave Selena alone" over and over and over again as I walk out into the ocean*
michael_michaelabout 2 hours ago
We’ll actually have AI Anthony Bourdain doing it.
cmiles8about 2 hours ago
AI Bourdain in the AI implosion movie would be quite ironic!
prometheus1992about 2 hours ago
are they trying to pull off what meta did?

link - https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/meta-set-clinch-...

xlaynabout 2 hours ago
Is all this a tax evading thing? so you move all those assets to the other company, the datacenter that is installed on a place that gives them a lot of tax advantages because "it will create thousands of work positions" gets then to be assigned to a shell company that declares the whole thing experimental and gets a lot of tax benefits that may result in "tax returns" paid from taxes from the people? LOL

how many dips are there in that scheme?

prometheus1992about 2 hours ago
I really didn't think it from the tax angle. In my mind they are doing this to move chunks of meaningful debt from their balance sheet and with it, move the risk elsewhere. These are outside investors who will own the GPUs and amazon will pay a rent to use those GPUs. It's interesting why amazon would do this, and not just amazon- meta, google and everyone else is using SVPs.
dgellowabout 2 hours ago
No, it’s not solely for taxes, they use those SPVs to protect their debt rating, they can raise debt via a vehicle they control without having to add it to their balance sheet. It’s exactly what meta has been doing. They want to avoid being the next oracle.

As far as I’m aware it’s all legal, but also shady and doesn't inspire confidence. You wouldn’t be trying to obfuscate your debts if you didn’t think transparency to your investors would make you look bad

jms703about 2 hours ago
Meanwhile I can't afford a new gpu or ram...or cpu now.
ahartmetzabout 2 hours ago
CPUs are cheap. No one is buying them because the RAM to go along with them is so expensive.
dannywabout 2 hours ago
It shouldn't be this way, but DDR4 is perfectly fine and will last for years. RAM generally has low failure rates; and prices are relatively better on the used market. If you want ECC, many used DDR4 ECC sticks seem like a 'relative bargain' compared to how much DDR5 ECC goes for.

As for GPU, AMD hasn't raised prices by as much; and honestly my 3060 12GB from many, many years ago plays absolutely every single game I want to play at 1440p; with nice visuals. Yeah, I can't pump everything to ultra, and maybe I need some DLSS for the most demanding games, but it's far cry from "old" or "obsolete".

In terms of actual experience or enjoyment I get from video games, I'm not missing out on anything.

It's legitimate to feel disappointed and upset at the current state of the PC market, but slightly older desktop hardware is still more than plenty fast enough.

I own both a MBP M5 Pro 48GB, and a MacBook Neo, and I use my Neo probably 2x as much as my MBP.

JamesLeonisabout 2 hours ago
> As for GPU, AMD hasn't raised prices by as much; and honestly my 3060 12GB from many, many years ago plays absolutely every single game I want to play at 1440p; with nice visuals.

I also have DDR4 and an ancient 1080 8GB, both perform well at 1440p. I built the box months before cryptotokens went exponential in 2017 and it has carried me ever since.

claudexabout 2 hours ago
DDR4 prices are also impacted. The price is x3 compared a year ago.
sajithdilshanabout 2 hours ago
Because you’re poor?
avidruntimeabout 1 hour ago
What do you get out of making comments like this?
kingstnapabout 2 hours ago
> the deal that would move thousands of Grace Blackwell chips it is installing in US data centres into a special-purpose vehicle

> The cloud giant will then lease the advanced AI chips back from the SPV

I mean nothing is disappearing off the balance sheet. They have this lease agreement they will need to pay.

I would watch for what they do with the freed up cash though. If they use these GPUs they already own as collateral to *double down* on buying more GPUs then we got some serious downturn risk building because its leveraged.

Btw this is like 100% what Jensen was saying when he said gpu compute would be an "investable asset class".

ActionHankabout 2 hours ago
And this lease agreement is perpetual right? Amazon can't just go and get a different set of hardware themselves or get another set of ignorant investors to buy the new hardware and leave these investors holding the bag?

That lease agreement is hold up more hope than god here my guy.

eigenspaceabout 2 hours ago
Nothing to see here folks. Nothing at all.

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