182 points•megalomanu•about 13 hours ago•419 comments•

419 comments

megalomanuabout 12 hours ago
Author here! Thanks for all the comments. This post isn't meant as a lesson or a judgment, something to tell "just shut up and adapt like my ancestor did". The situation is hard, and I wasn't trying to dismiss anyone's anxiety. No one wants to hear "you'll be fine" when something bad just happened.

It's mostly a personal story. You can see it as a kind of tribute to a great-great-grandfather I never met, partly because I'd never heard a story like it before. It's banal but still a big adventure in the family. I find it fascinating that he grew up in a completely different world from mine and still felt some of the same doubts and anxieties I do today. And I'm really proud of him, because his "pivot" let my family stay in the village instead of maybe leaving to work in factories in the city. My father loved his job, and in a way that's thanks to him.

adamredwoodsabout 3 hours ago
I appreciate your wholesome message, but I feel a bit is overlooked.

Horses and engines are in a tangible, corporeal domain. I almost feel like pivoting could be easier with that: the tools are still the hands. Also, pivoting might be easier especially when no one is in that space of repairing cars in a small village at the time. Low competition. I also think time allowed to pivot is much higher: automobiles were expensive and time to adoption is higher, I wonder how long it took to be able to make a living?

Data, numbers, programming, this is in a ephemeral domain. Competition is high, there are a lot of developers. Time to adoption is extremely fast. In the automobile era, someone may have had five to ten years to pivot. Now? Maybe a year?

Is it about making things? Maybe, but pivoting and making a career of it is not a straight path, and sometimes people get lucky in choosing the path.

Interesting historical read:

https://historycollection.com/10-industries-either-killed-cr...

>> Many blacksmiths added the mechanical skills needed to service and repair automobiles, particularly in smaller towns and rural areas. In short order, some of the more commonly replaced automobile parts, such as tires, were being stocked by blacksmith’s, others which were necessary to a vehicle’s repair were ordered by telegraph or telephone for delivery to the blacksmith’s shop. Blacksmiths and service stations soon had competition from the automobile parts store, another new specialty which blossomed along the popularity of traveling by car.

4ndrewlabout 8 hours ago
Sounds amazing. How on earth did he go from shoeing horses to learning about the internal combustion engine? Seems quite the leap that not everyone would be capable of.
megalomanuabout 7 hours ago
He just vibe-repaired cars!

Joke aside, it was not shoeing horses but also working on the carts, etc. Probably bikes too. So at least he reused some mechanical skills, and probably tools, he already had. Only the engine was really new.

And many people living in small villages back then had basic knowledge in many disciplines, including electricity. When you had a farm for instance, you needed to be able to repair yourself anything.

doug_durhamabout 6 hours ago
Early automobiles were very simple machines. I you knew how to repair a carriage or a wagon, you were pretty close to being able to work on an early automobile. You should check them out.
Toutouxcabout 7 hours ago
Shoeing horses properly is actually no joke and cars back then were laughably simple. I don’t see how any of that could feel relatable to people in software development now, when almost all jobs that require real smarts and competency require years of study and experience.
justonceokayabout 8 hours ago
Many people in life are underutilized and ready to step up to challenges if given the opportunity.
asd176about 7 hours ago
The flagging here is better than in a Steinberger thread. Unreal and congrats.
bhelkeyabout 7 hours ago
There is a quote from a CGP Grey video from a bit over a decade ago, "There isn't a rule of economics that says better technology makes more, better jobs for horses. It sounds shockingly dumb to even say that out loud, but swap horses for humans and suddenly people think it sounds about right." [1]

A couple hundred years ago, something like 70% of the population worked in agriculture. Technology replaced almost all of these jobs.

So far, we have reimagined old professions and created brand new ones. Is this ability of ours limitless?

[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CMFj75kBQlU

Aperockyabout 6 hours ago
Yes, because people are consumers, horses are not.

Jobs are a mean to make people consumers, not the only mean, but a significant one.

The ability to create more economic activity require both sides to catch up, so we will find a way to do so.

ndiddyabout 5 hours ago
The amount of consumption is largely dependent on income level. There's a recent study from Moody's that says that in the US, the top 10% income bracket now accounts for roughly half of consumer spending. As wealth inequality continues to worsen, it makes more and more sense to solely target high earners because you make the same or more as selling higher amounts of lower priced product but with less overhead.
ninglorabout 5 hours ago
This sounds like you are deriving an is from an ought.

Is it not conceivable that we won't find a way to do so, and that consumption and economic activity will ultimately decline?

Hamukoabout 5 hours ago
Everyone wants seniors, nobody wants to train juniors.

I imagine this is gonna continue to be true, except that "everyone wants consumers, nobody wants to employ people".

siffinabout 5 hours ago
Your statement makes it seem like we had no problem losing professions to automation. I'd argue this isn't true.

There are plenty of poeple who have inadequate work the world over because there isn't enough paid work to do, and most professions are servicing wants, not needs, so the demand is very elastic, with many people now multi talented and still not making ends meet.

MiliasGeigerabout 6 hours ago
I know it's been talked to death already, but the fact that the video is so wrong on self-driving cars is mind-blowing. We can rationalize post-fact as much as we want - still it is shocking that popular belief never expected language models before self driving.
lazyasciiartabout 5 hours ago
Popular belief never took the regulatory obstacles to self-driving cars seriously. If LLMs required insurance to use, they also wouldn't be available in public yet.
datsci_est_2015about 2 hours ago
Isn’t technology defined by how things can be used by humans, I.e. tools? Horses can’t use smartphones, and a “smartphone” designed for a horse would look significantly different. Seems a like a nonsensical argument based on the definition of words. Technology is what humans can use to achieve tasks.
Vegenoidabout 6 hours ago
1. There are no rules of economics. Economists attempt to understand things that happen and use that understanding to predict future events, but frankly there’s not a lot of consensus.

2. Economics is a function of human behavior, not horse behavior. Economics is about coordinating human effort. Humans make economics, horses don’t. When economics change in a way that is bad for horses, the horses have no recourse. When economics change in a way that is bad for humans, the affected humans seek to change things.

pixl97about 3 hours ago
...by dying under the treads of tanks.

Humans are not required in economics. Only inputs and outputs. That's it. It is a grand delusion we have that we meatsacks are needed.

Civics and society seem to still need people and that's what I'm worried about breaking down.

harimau777about 8 hours ago
Have any of these articles actually addressed HOW software developers are supposed to retrain for good jobs? Personally I have neither the money nor the years to go back to college to get a livable job.
tripleeeabout 7 hours ago
I know some people whose work was already almost completely eliminated by AI (language translation) and they're not doing great. Reality is there's no-one out there looking out for you except yourself and very close family/friends.
sdcfgyabout 7 hours ago
I know a language translator (Japanese/English) who is doing very well out of AI screwing up and causing damage.
chubotabout 7 hours ago
Just curious, what kind of jobs did they transition to? Or were they forced to take a break, or left in job application hell, etc?
bruce511about 7 hours ago
So obviously each college is different. And your experience is not mine.

But my college did not train me to get a job the first time. Indeed they explicitly explained to us that that was not their goal. That was helpful because up to then we did think they were doing job training.

What they actually set out to do was make us "smarter" people. In the sense that they taught us to analyze problems, work in teams, find creative solutions. They taught us about research and critical thinking, and logic and so on. How to hypothesize, test, evaluate, adapt.

You don't need to go back to college to learn all that again. You already know it. Skills are easily, and quickly taught and learned. That's the easy part. The hard part is approaching a job as a problem to solve- how and where to add value. Value people will pay for.

Look around you. See unmet needs. Figure out what you need to do to meet those needs. That's the real challenge we face going into this next era.

mitthrowaway2about 7 hours ago
I don't know where you are, but when I hire mechanical engineers, I hire them from universities with accredited engineering programs. It's actually a legal requirement for the job in my jurisdiction. And if those engineers decide they want to become daycare teachers or knee surgeons, they do have to go back to university and re-train, even though they already learned how to think the first time.
dmkolobovabout 7 hours ago
Did you graduate yesterday? Have you actually lived in the world?

My unmet needs are $2.5k rent and $2k childcare, per month. Then there's food, healthcare, car payments. There is pretty much zero wiggle room for us.

trollbridgeabout 5 hours ago
People don't get a degree in "generic doing things people want". They generally get one focused on a particular field.

If someone's degree is in computer science, they're not going to be a good fit to be, say, an accountant or a nuclear engineer.

tripleeeabout 7 hours ago
This works if you're interested in running a business, but what well paying work doesn't require a degree or some kind of formal training certification?
Aurornisabout 6 hours ago
People in tech change roles and careers all the time. The vast majority of role or career changes do not involve going back to college.

I would even recommend against going back to college unless someone has an extremely compelling case for a career change that requires it and the conviction to see it through.

I'm hesitant to give examples because I know every example I give will be met with objections from "But I don't want to do that job" or "What if that gets replaced by AI too?". Look around you and you can should be able to identify some adjacent roles where you at least have an understanding of what the works like and you could learn the rest by taking on gradually more responsibility.

There are a lot of jobs out there that aren't exciting, don't pay SWE level salaries, but nevertheless pay enough to support a family as evidenced by all of the people doing those jobs who support their families. Not every company or industry is interested in squeezing maximum efficiency out of their employees. I have friends in highly bureaucratic roles who care about their jobs and do it well, but their work is amazing simple and easy. It requires nothing more than being a responsible adult who can show up to the office and get things done. These jobs are everywhere and I don't think they're going to disappear.

I don't think SWE is going to disappear either, but it will look a lot different in years to come. If you can't or won't adapt to the new normal, one of those boring alternative careers might be worth pursuing.

PorciiVorbescabout 6 hours ago
>The vast majority of role or career changes do not involve going back to college.

That was possible pre-2022 during the famous developer labor shortage. In the current market, companies expect seniority/experience in that specific stack they use for that, no more career changers.

They either take you as a senior/expert to contribute from day one, or as a young and cheap newgrad/junior out of uni they expect to train on the job, but no more in-betweeners switching careers as they're not as experienced as the seniors on the market, nor are they as cheap and malleable as newgrads/juniors.

Sure, in theory every developer can learn at home to do anything new related, but in the current job market, companies expect X-years of proven on the job experience with their stack, no more bootcampers, and no more self-taught-at-home types. The entry bar has risen significantly. At least where I live.

Like I just saw on linkeidn a job posting from a large bank that was an hour old and it already had 100 applications, which probably means most applications are now AI botted, meaning yours will get lost in the noise and getting a call back for an actual interview is like rolling a dice.

Not saying it's impossible to change(I did a couple of times), just that's it's much more difficult than in the good times, and will most likely also come with a paycut.

harimau777about 6 hours ago
I guess where I'm coming from is that I currently am trying to change careers. Everything I'm finding is either a 50% pay cut or is simply unwilling to consider anyone without 5-10 years of experience in that particular industry. Since I've already built a life here I can't really just move and a 50% pay cut isn't enough to live anywhere near a comfortable life; particularly since I have medical expenses that aren't covered by insurance.
rayinerabout 3 hours ago
> I have friends in highly bureaucratic roles who care about their jobs and do it well, but their work is amazing simple and easy. It requires nothing more than being a responsible adult who can show up to the office and get things done. These jobs are everywhere and I don't think they're going to disappear.

I think these jobs are actually the most likely to be replaced by AI. They have resisted automation to date because there's too much fuzz in the inputs/outputs to make it feasible to computerize. LLMs solve exactly that problem.

rayinerabout 8 hours ago
The same way clerical and manufacturing workers retrained when their jobs were replaced by computers/the Internet and robots. That is to say, most won’t.
trollbridgeabout 5 hours ago
Well, a lot of them retrained into call-centre type of jobs.

Then the call centre jobs offshored (and now are being replaced by AI).

justonceokayabout 8 hours ago
Just like everyone else. I have a feeling your definition of “livable” is not in line with the reality that most people face. You share more in common with a stay-at-home mom going back to school to become a phlebotomist than you think. It’s just pride gets in the way
hnlmorgabout 7 hours ago
A stay-at-home mom isn’t bringing any income in so has the luxury of being able to fail.

Whereas many of us can’t take a loss of income for months while we retrain.

zug_zugabout 13 hours ago
And my great great grandpa thought horses would lose all their jobs to cars. And they all did and it was never the same again.

There’s no quick answers, but intuitively I think we all get that the % of jobs not doable by AI and robotics approaches 0 over time.

DoctorDabadedooabout 12 hours ago
As someone that works in robotics/automation, it pains me to see people in creative/office verticals getting all the shit with AI these days while hard labor positions, the one that everyone could be doing a bit less because they take a toll on you (working the fields, farms, hazardous tasks) remain pretty much the same.
fl4regunabout 7 hours ago
don't we already have lots of machines that do things like this though? Even if its human operated: excavators, combines, tractors, and other heavy machinery have reduced the physical burden involved in sustaining large societies tremendously.
AnimalMuppetabout 12 hours ago
If you use a computer to do something, training an AI to use the computer to do the same thing just takes the computer, which was there anyway. (Yeah, plus training the model, that's not my point.) But if you do something physical, replacing you takes something physical to be there.

We may eventually manufacture the robots to do all these things. We aren't there yet.

jawilson2about 6 hours ago
I would agree with you, if we taxed the ever-living fuck out of AI companies to enable UBI, so that the people replaced with robots did not end up homeless.
Pet_Antabout 13 hours ago
Worse, it was just almost all horses. There are a few in Central Park pulling tourists and that’s enough for the Pollyanna’s to point to and go “See! We’ll be fine!”
bluGillabout 7 hours ago
Horses where the plaything of the rich. Farmers were using oxen not horses for the most part. However the modern plow (invented in the mid 1830s - John Deere being the best known inventor, but others were inventing them about the same time) needed the faster speed of a horse to work well, but if the previous farming technology worked for you then oxen (or donkeys ... - there are several other work animals used in different areas for farming) were better.

There are likely more horses today than there were in 1900 - but now they are play things for the upper middle class living in the exurbs (commuting via car to their city job). Sure there are a few Amish (and other similar groups) making a living with a horse, but most of them are toys for the wealthy.

pfdietzabout 7 hours ago
The number of horses in the US is down by about a factor of 3 from the peak in 1920. They're mostly recreational now though.
ForHackernewsabout 12 hours ago
Presumably you are a human, not a horse, yes? Presumably there is more to your life than dragging around carts all day every day?

HN: A site full of bold futurists where it's easier to imagine the end of the humanity than the end of capitalism.

dsignabout 8 hours ago
> I think we all get that the % of jobs not doable by AI and robotics approaches 0 over time.

I also think that will be the case. However, not all the jobs are worth being automated. Say, if you are a modern-day horse-riding instructor, I very much doubt the robots will come knocking the door to take your job. Not because they can't, but because the headache is not economically worth it.

zamadatixabout 8 hours ago
It'd be uneconomical today but I don't see any reason to believe it will always be that way. Any time you want a high standard of living for people it creates an incentive to eventually make a cheaper way of doing what those people make their high standard of living with.

About the only things I can think to guarantee will have some constancy are "for the sake of being human" type things. Much like buying handmade bowls is something you can do out of pure preference/taste/ideology even though it's cheaper to buy massed produced ones.

asdffabout 5 hours ago
I can see that going away too. Eventually the average horse rider is going to be someone of stature of a saudi prince at the rate horse ownership coupled with inequality is going. They'd probably be all about buying the Gemini horse teacher over learning from some lesser birth stableboy. I bet eventually all tutoring from a human is seen as some lesser ick by the rich. People already think as much about you today when you talk about say not relying on claude code. It is all about optics and virtue signalling pedigrees at the end of the day.
skybrianabout 12 hours ago
In the long run, we’re all dead anyway. (Unless something drastic changes.) That means how long it will take for robots to be practical matters. We don’t know how long it will be, but driverless cars have been coming for 15 years now and they’re still unavailable in most places.

People are more adaptable than horses and tech solutions usually require people to do some of the work. Dishwashers need loading and unloading. My robot vacuum still needs maintenance. Self-checkout means you do the scanning.

Amazon wants to get into drone delivery and there are cases where that might work, but the way news articles describe it, it’s not going to get a package onto my porch.

sashank_1509about 7 hours ago
You seem to be living under a rock. Yes driverless cars started in 2009, but in 2026 it is very much here. Waymo recently crossed a milestone of more 500k trips I think, we will have millions of driverless cars in the coming years (we’re at 10k right now)
commandlinefanabout 12 hours ago
But the horses themselves got the better end of the deal - they spend all their time in the field eating hay rather than pulling carts.
reasonablekloutabout 7 hours ago
The phrase "sent to the glue factory" comes from this era where many horses made redundant were sent to be slaughtered for meat or raw materials.
Hamukoabout 11 hours ago
Or on the shelves of Tesco.
mrguyoramaabout 12 hours ago
No. The horses were made redundant and no longer exist in such quantities

So, uh, maybe don't dwell on that too much.

Actually, dwell on that a lot. It's probably the only instructive example.

The rich and powerful only suffer us because they need us. They cannot assemble every lead painted doodad by their own hands. If they could, they never would have hired anyone. So what happens when they no longer need as many people?

Society is already far too constructed around catching some of the wealth that just spills off of the people who own it, by being in their orbit. That activity is not actually productive, but since the only people with money are the ones that have a lot of it (K shaped economy), there's just not enough wealth left in the bottom part of the market to support anything else.

mrbonnerabout 6 hours ago
I’ve been coding for over 20 years. I may not be the perfect coder, but for me, the real goal has always been solving problems and coding is just a side effect. If I could solve an operational problem with Excel, I would! Code, once created, is a liability I have to carry.

So I’m embracing AI-assisted coding with open arms. It’s not that I don’t enjoy coding. it’s that this approach lets me solve problems faster than ever before.

eatsyourtacosabout 5 hours ago
Ok but you do realize that AI can also solve problems? The thing is it's not just taking away "the coding" it's also taking away the problem solving (of course I'm not talking about all problem solving).

That's the real risk here is that we are getting to the point (probably already there for a lot of stuff) where you can just point it to your already existing codebase and tell it your problem and it can basically do it.. I mean I've tested that in practice, sometimes I'll have a clear direction of where I want to go or what I would do.. but I don't really give it any hints of how to solve the problem, and many times it comes up with a similar result or at least one that also works completely fine.

So I think part of the issue is that people like you and me I feel like are going to be so much less needed because an AI can just do it instantly for basically free.

Anyway, I know this is a slight hyperbole.. but it's also not. It kind of sucks to realize that a simple prompt can replicate your work 95% of the time and do it basically instantly.

sailfast19 minutes ago
It's not right a lot of the time (yes, even the latest models) based on the problem you're trying to solve for your users. (That's one thing we can keep doing).

It doesn't always know the right thing to fit the need, so you can now figure out what that looks like and design it appropriately (and try 10 options in production and see which one wins!)

But also you can just do a lot more work. If the prompt can replicate 95% of your work, now you can do keep moving forward faster and do a lot more work.

This does mean, of course, that there will be less of a need for software engineers that are only capable of reasoning about the edges of applications or one narrow part of the whole discipline will get squeezed out. If a computer can do the job, it's now less valuable of a skillset than it used to be in the market, and that hits wages hard if your only contribution to the market was "I know how to create React components when someone tells me what is in them, and how they need to interact with other components"

Happily, despite the amazing productivity of AI, there is still so much absolute CRAP software out there, and so many different places we can apply better options. Bureaucracy and poor management will continue to create new opportunities.

joeyagrecoabout 5 hours ago
> where you can just point it to your already existing codebase and tell it your problem and it can basically do it

Who is deciding the action/s to take in response to the problem? How do you know which is the right action to take?

"A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision."

mrbonnerabout 5 hours ago
What you said is valid but I think you are still constrained in thinking that the code is the solution, though. I wish I could word it a better way. Maybe we need a word calculator /s

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