Data centre sizes and costs are doubling about every 12 to 16 months

219 points•Betelbuddy•1 day ago•325 comments•

325 comments

vdombr1 day ago
It's been almost half a year since we got powerful enough models, and I'm wondering, where are all those great things that were created with them? Maybe it's just me, but nothing has changed in my life so far. No improvements, but definitely, I need to be more careful when reading, listening, watching, and using things, as bad quality slowly creeps everywhere.
notJim1 day ago
I'm seeing a ton of niche apps being built that otherwise wouldn't have been. As an example, NegPy is an app that gives you much more precise control when working with film negatives, and has been built largely w/ AI tools. There are a small couple of other photography related niche apps I've seen taking off, for example, for managing your Fuji recipes. I'm working on a Lightroom replacement myself, which I never would've taken on before AI tools.

In terms of personal life, I certainly find AI tools pretty useful especially given how awful Google is now, and coding tools are indispensable at work.

camillomiller1 day ago
You’re all confirming the point by quoting niche examples of things that wouldn’t sustain a million dollar a year market, let alone contribute to a 6 trillion dollar one.
gamblor9561 day ago
The best example you can think of is just recreating existing software but without the stability or features...

Which is the point of the post. Niche apps and use cases aren't with 6 trillion annually.

rpdillonabout 24 hours ago
Local AI has completely changed my relationship with computers because now I can build utilities, tools, scripts, and get debugging help with my systems with far less friction than I ever could before. I used to do all of this by hand, but now I can spin it off as essentially an async sub-process to the AI that I can return to a few hours later and have the job done. Everything from system upgrades to custom Steam Deck launchers and ad hoc service scripts for my home lab have benefited from being able to run a two-bit quant of deepseek on my Strix Halo.

I think it's going to remake our relationship with software because it completely alters the economics of creating one-off utilities, whereas software up until this point is generally regarded reuse as one of the highest virtues.

We're not going to see that impact for a while though. It'll take years. App stores will eventually become on-demand software and we'll view the marketplace analogy (where human developers offer their wares) as antiquated. I'm not totally confident in this prediction because requirements gathering is still a challenge, but for anything vaguely common, I think it'll be a workable model.

Mostly just focusing on positives in my life, not particularly bullish on the industry generating 6T/y.

Do you build things for yourself? I’ve unlocked tremendous value just by scratching my own itches so to speak.

But taking those bespoke contraptions to market is not something I want to out effort into. Especially when anyone can just clone it with AI.

The AI revolution might not show up so easily in GDP.

vconnor1 day ago
If you are building for yourself instead of buying from someone else, you haven’t unlocked any value in the economic sense. Perhaps by making NVIDIA richer, but who knows how much they have indirectly spent through AI companies these years to get your couple dollars a month back to Jensen’s pocket.
Gattopardo1 day ago
It appears that out of a desperate urge to show your "Well Actually" Club Card that you've proved their entire point.
bojan1 day ago
So you've unlocked tremendous value, but you're not earning any money?

So where is the value? Have you built that one application you always wished existed but it wasn't available?

fragmede1 day ago
GDP is known to have shortcomings. The example from HN a bit ago is mowing the lawn. If I mow my own lawn and my neighbor mows there, the GDP doesn't move. If I mow my neighbors for $200 and they mow mine for $200, $400 gets added to the GDP. So the software I wrote for myself won't show up in any GDP calculation. How happy (or not) I am over that software doesn't show up in the GDP. My subscription to the AI provider is the only thing that will. Now, will that, multiplied over millions of users reach $6T? I have no idea. GDP is a metric like any other and is just as subject to Goodhart's law.
camillomiller1 day ago
You explained the problem brilliantly. Frontier models are great at making you tinker and come up with shit you wouldn’t have done because there is zero value in it and you would have had to bet a value N (time, money) to obtain before this investors-subsidized almost-free software existed. This is deluding individuals and CEOs and everyone who seems incapable to abstract from the sycophantic personal experience into systemic thinking. To be fair, LLMs have been engineered to give this illusion, so the fault lies with the grifters controlling them.

Now are there useful applications of these tools (not gods) that might justify a sizeable new tech market? Absolutely yes! Is that market ever be going to be worth trillions a year? LOL hell no.

pkaedingabout 13 hours ago
If you work in cybersecurity, it has changed you life. The pace of everything has increased exponentially. AI both makes the job easier, and harder, at the same time.
scoofy1 day ago
I wrote a golf simulator that helps visualize golf architecture with help from Gemini. When I published my first piece, I got an email from Tom Doak and the head of data science at Arccos. An absolutely insane response for my dumb blog. I was invited to the Renaissance Cup this year, almost certainly because of that post; golf nerds can tell you what a huge deal that is.

The blog post is here for anyone interested: https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/i-spent-the-last-month...

Things are happening… and quickly, even if we are not quite to the point where VC’s are ready fund prototypes of robots to fold your laundry. Most of what’s happening is nerds finally building the project they’ve always dreamed of outside the traditional funding pathways.

darkwizard421 day ago
For what its worth, https://www.weaverobotics.com/ is one of those VC-funded robot-to-fold-your-laundry companies! I think physical world implications are coming!
nunez1 day ago
lol interestingly my neighbor built something similar! he built an app on the App Store for doing golf trajectory things on courses when the App Store was new. (sorry; not a golfer, though i suck at topgolf on occasion!) Sold it for some cash and is now double-downing on it with Claude.
bunderbunder1 day ago
They talk a bit about where the AI companies are supposed to get their revenue from. I’d like to see these analyses go a step further and talk about how those AI customers are supposed to come up with that money as well.

For example, the article suggests $1T from enterprise productivity tooling. A quick Google suggests the global enterprise productivity tooling market is only worth about $0.1T right now.

Do we really expect all the world’s corporations to suddenly up their annual spend by 1,000% on average? Why?

Legend24401 day ago
Keep in mind wealth is not a fixed thing. If AI makes their businesses more productive, it would allow the creation of more wealth, giving them more money to pay for AI with.

This of course hinges on the big if: does AI create wealth? I think yes, but maybe not $6 trillion of it in five years.

bunderbunder1 day ago
But that's where the "Why?" comes in.

At a time when corporate CEOs are largely saying that they can't see that AI has improved office productivity at all, why should we believe that a killer productivity application of genai that's amazing enough to justify an order of magnitude increase in enterprise spending on productivity tools is just around the corner?

kergonath1 day ago
> This of course hinges on the big if: does AI create wealth? I think yes, but maybe not $6 trillion of it in five years.

There is also the question of time scale. Growing a market takes time. Assuming the numbers above are the right order of magnitude, we are not going from 0.1 to 1 in a year. So even if the number would make sense over longer time frames, it can still be unsustainable for a significant amount of time before that.

Like the Internet at the end if the 1990s, basically.

otherme1231 day ago
I think you are mixin wealth with money. In the short run it is a near zero sum game: money should go from A (now obsolete) to B. For example, brick and mortar shops replaced by online shops. For example horse business going bankrupt while car business is booming. Wealth is created in the form of more convenient shopping or travelling, not as $$$. AI might help some businesses with their productivity (creating new wealth), but those business are expected to divert $6T from current expenses (wages, or non AI tooling) towards AI pockets, or steal $6T market share from non-AI business.
root_axis1 day ago
More productivity might translate into more revenue, but more productivity doesn't necessarily create more wealth.

For example, if I'm a landlord that uses AI to more intelligently price rental increases to maximize profit without attrition, I have created more revenue but not more wealth.

overtone10001 day ago
The non-zero-sum game is a concept that cuts both ways. If wealth can be created, it can also be destroyed.
ben_w1 day ago
Customers coming up with it is basically fine*, but it's also why the SpaceX IPO chose to use "TAM" as a big number to dangle before investors: if you can do the work of {$6T + markup}/year worth of desk jobs, that's your customers.

However, customers coming up with the money is the easy half of the problem. The hard part is having them pay you.

Wikipedia's valuation is on the small side of {number of people on the internet worldwide} * {peak price of Encyclopaedia Britannica} † despite containing a lot more content.

LLMs can only chase high margins while they're ahead of their competitors; the moment the investment stalls, open weighs catch up, they loose their edge. Cloud compute providers still win on supplying inference, but there too competition will likely lower margins, not justify huge valuations.

NVIDIA may remain as valuable as today, but their P/E ratio will likely shrink a lot even while keeping up the price.

Model makers still have a problem here even if the tech is so useful it rapidly grows the economy: "free" is right behind them almost immediately after they stop.

* under the assumption the tech is real; there's plenty of people here on Hacker News who still dismiss it as a "scam"

† that would be about 13 trillion USD, from what I read

nicce1 day ago
> Do we really expect all the world’s corporations to suddenly up their annual spend by 1,000% on average? Why?

If they keep replacing employees with AI, that is indeed the direction.

sailfast1 day ago
It’s true - but then where do folks get money to buy from the businesses?

Eventually this merry-go-round runs into some issues if we don’t figure out a way to make this huge productivity boom work.

raesene91 day ago
But if all those peolple are unemployed will they still be able to buy all the products the corporations sell…..
user439281 day ago
The global GDP is $126T, a 5% productivity increase would correspond to $6.3T.

So, I have the following thoughts:

How much more productive can AI for knowledge work realistically make the global economy? 5%, 10%, 20%?

What if it also does robotics soon and can be deployed in manufacturing and construction? Can we get 50% more productive, or 200%?

Then there's science, medicine, and so on. Who is to say what happens if AI solves also that?

While I do not know if AI will be capable for these use cases, I see no reason to believe it unlikely that AI could be applicable to eg. robotics and speed up production by factor 3x.

qaq1 day ago
"Do we really expect all the world’s corporations to suddenly up their annual spend by 1,000% on average? Why?" Because they will replace people with tools I am guessing?
wnmurphy1 day ago
Bingo. When that 1000% increase in spending on tokens represents a cost savings of 80% on knowledge worker labor, companies will happily pay it.

The other factor that threatens the $6T required to justify... open source models crushing the pricing power of these companies. If I can use some open source agent management framework + self-hosted Qwen to basically replace my entire Product org for free, then why would I pay Microsoft/Google/Anthropic/OpenAI?

godbox1 day ago
To put this into perspective, healthcare, real estate and banking each earn ~$1.5T in revenue annually. This is REVENUE, not profit which is obviously lower than the revenue in every industry. I fail to understand how AI can achieve $6T in annual revenue when the TAM for healthcare and banking is a quarter of that in the US.
dmix1 day ago
The article says $6T by 2031 and it's global spending, not just in the US.

> Bain forecasts that annual spending on AI infrastructure might hit $1.5 trillion by 2031.

So maybe in 5yrs it will need enough revenue to cover $1.5T in capex spend globally in a year, investments which as the article mentions is also being supported by governments in "the UAE, Saudi Arabia, the EU, South Korea and the US". ... Or spending growth could lower over the next couple years to be more realistic.

godbox1 day ago
None of this refutes my point which was that there's no way that the AI industry can, even globally, achieve a $6T TAM. At the very least, I'm confident that it will not happen by 2031. Industries cannot grow that quickly because money can't reach them that quickly.
wnmurphy1 day ago
I think what's lost on the general public who mainly thinks AI is ChatGPT, is that these companies are gunning for knowledge worker salaries. That by itself is ~$30T/year globally. Nothing else justifies the infra spend. Data center investment is a bet that they will be able to virtualize knowledge workers in the next 5 years.

Warehouse and factory labor is the next largest market for AI/robotics, at about $7T/year globally.

The bubble question is really about the target year. Will these companies start on a trajectory where AI begins eating these massive markets before investors lose faith?

To me it looks like one of these is true:

(1) this is indeed a bubble, and AI will turn into a useful tool integrated into everything but fall short of expectations. We'll see some significant multiple compression in the share prices of these core AI companies, but they'll remain good investments in the long term.

(2) this is a real transformation, the investment was worth it, and these companies will earn massive revenue while causing Depression-era levels of unemployment (24% if half of knowledge workers and factory/warehouse workers can get jobs).

Basically, the revenue required to justify the infra spend requires that they start eating existing industries, because that's certainly not going to come from ChatGPT/Claude subscriptions.

ch_sm1 day ago
there‘s another option. It could be both. The labs are never able to recoup their massive investments, eventually causing a huge loss on the stock market, AND the efficiency gains from tech they pioneered but failed to capitalize on wipes out millions of jobs.
zmmmmm1 day ago
> these companies are gunning for knowledge worker salaries

I think there's a kind of arrogance involved here in how they value what "knowledge workers" do. On the the outside they see some documents written, spreadhsheets filled out, forms submitted, emails sent and conclude AI could do all of that.

It's true AI can do a lot of the mechanics of it, but the assumption that there is nothing beyond the pure mechanics of it to me is highly untested and history would bet against it. Some significant part of it sits genuinely within the human relationship component that is almost definitionally not doable by a computer.

eurhe1 day ago
They’ve already failed.

Claude for finance etc - long list of products that are barely a value add and in some cases value destructive.

Ironically the only hard thing they’ve landed on that generates revenue is Code - the one thing they’re supposed to understand deeply lol!

nunez1 day ago
missing the forest for the trees

sure there's $30T of opportunity here, but how much of that will be lost from people being unable to consume like they do now from being out of work or the same companies participating in this market losing the desire to pay white collar workers what they pay them now?

someone's gotta buy those $2-5M SFHs in the Bay and the ~$6/gal gas and the $15-20 burgers and...

COVID sure as hell proved that we are a long ways away from people being fine with contributing to UBI, so...

tim3331 day ago
(3) it could be real but with new jobs and increased output rather than depression era unemployment.
empath751 day ago
> I think what's lost on the general public who mainly thinks AI is ChatGPT,

There are so many people who have never used Claude Code or Codex who think that Google's AI results are representative of what AI can do.

Lerc1 day ago
I think the statement is the wrong one.

I think their claim they can make, assuming their evidence is true, is

"AI needs $6T in annual revenue for every investment in AI to be profitable"

I think some people will make a lot of money and more people will lose a lot of money.

Most of those investing know this, they are taking the risk of losing a lot to attempt to be one of the ones that make a lot.

A lot of early internet tech companies went bust, a few became extremely successful. At the time I would see high valuations and ask "Yes, but how do they make money". Most of those with an unclear answer to that question are not around now. The ones who had a tangible plan to make money, even if they were making a loss at the time, tended to survive.

There is a lot of Dumb money going into AI, when that is the dumb money of wealthy individuals, I am more than happy to let them receive no return while paying for infrastructure. There's a problem when the dumb money comes from dumb individuals who are routing money from others who do not have a say in how it gets invested.

That is not an AI specific problem, that is a problem where people can make decisions where others carry the risk without their consent. That is the problem that needs to be met head on.

empath751 day ago
> I think some people will make a lot of money and more people will lose a lot of money.

---

Yeah, this is exactly right. The numbers look impossible because they _are_ impossible. The _vast majority_ of AI spend is wasted and the vast majority of AI companies are going to go bankrupt. There are _still_ going to be unimaginable amounts of wealth earned by the survivors.

Lerc1 day ago
>The _vast majority_ of AI spend is wasted

I don't think this part is correct. It is spent on things. There will be a quantity that will go training models that do not contribute research data or active use that you could say that the resources were wasted. If the money is spent on infrastructure or the resulting models found active use (or provided research insights) then I don't think you can say that the money has been wasted.

I think a large proportion of the advances in AI that have come in the last year have come from being able to see the models from the previous year in action.

That does not guarantee that money will be returned to investors, Just that it wasn't wasted.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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