The Harness of Harnesses • built for RSI: a trusted, persistent, self-evolving multi-agent ecosystem for all-domain collaboration. - EverMind-AI/Raven

54 points•cyfyifanchen•1 day ago•51 comments•

51 comments

julesrms1 day ago
It's all very glitzy, but I'm failing to understand how "One prompt in. One result out." is of any importance.

This and other recent AI hype-fests all seem to be obsessed with making agents do more work unattended.

But surely in the real world, anyone who's got a real product to make is going to want to steer what's happening. It's ridiculous to think that anyone with a deadline would write a prompt so perfect that they walk away for 4 days and come back to find the finished product ready to ship.

If you really can write a prompt so complete and perfect that it needs nothing further, then any regular harness could probably also do the job. But if like normal people you need to try something, think about it, iterate, and repeat.. then you also just need a regular harness.

0c3ca831 day ago
> But surely in the real world, anyone who's got a real product to make is going to want to steer what's happening.

The promise of AI is that you won't need to pay people in order to think. A bet that there will be a long term need to steer is also a bet that AI will fail.

The people footing the bills for it are paying because they believe AI will succeed, and there will be no more need for a human in the loop. The reason people are pouring trillions into these AI companies is that they expect we'll make the breakthroughs that make it possible for AI to succeed at automating everything humans are able to do today.

So, skate to where the puck is going, not where it is, and all that.

julesrms1 day ago
Until the AIs are running entire companies unattended, then at some point, some human has to transfer some instructions into some actionable representation than the agents can build. That human might one day be a manager rather than a developer, but that transfer of intent is always going to be the problem to solve.

And IMHO while humans are still in charge of these processes, the way that most people can best design and explain what they want is via conversation, exploration, iteration, etc. Not by a single fire-and-forget prompt!

J03daSchm01 day ago
The Venn Diagram of people building the AI hype-fests and people building a real product is just two circles
visarga1 day ago
> But surely in the real world, anyone who's got a real product to make is going to want to steer what's happening.

In my own harness I log each and every user message by hook and use the model to extract user intent by re-reading the chat log from time to time. The raw messages are very important, they contain information that can be used to refine the harness on the one hand, and to validate if the agent still follows user intent on the other. Models tend to get lost in the details and forget the big picture.

hughw1 day ago
Not saying you're wrong. But right now I'm trying to craft some skill prose to instruct an agent how to optimize a certain process based on my own heuristics, and it's failing. Maybe I can let a super agent divine the right skill prose, iterating to see what works. It's worth a try.
julesrms1 day ago
OK, but by the time you've worked out the correct prompt to tell your meta-agent how to iterate on optimising the right prompt for your actual agent, perhaps you could have just tried a few things and got it going!
ssddanbrown1 day ago
RSI here is for "recursive self-improvement", instead of a harness being built to help users with repetitive strain injury like I first thought when reading the post title
broodbucket1 day ago
We gotta do something about these clashing TLAs.
polotics1 day ago
Well for starters the use of the term "Recursive" is very dubious.

This is as far as the eye can see all very iterative, there is no tail-call or anything fancy, it is loops. Also "Recursive" I feel kind of tries to imply the LLM's weights are being pushed around in some feedback, because to recurse you have to invoke the thing you're recursing into at its very start right? That would be reinforcement probably, and there is none of that in any such RSI so far, at least not public. Please someone contradict me with examples.

So please: "ISI" for iterative self improvement is fine. Also "ISI" does not fit the (outdated!) Vernon Vinge "singularity" trope, and that is a good thing!

gpm1 day ago
Perhaps modelling acronyms in TLA+ will help?
I agree, we can’t have all these three letter agencies running amuck.
brookst1 day ago
A register is the obvious choice, but of course then you get a gold rush and people squatting on XPZ and stuff without even having invented an opaque term behind it.
flexd1 day ago
Time for FLAs?
wafflemaker1 day ago
A very popular yoga kata called sun salutations (available in various versions depending on your fitness/advancement level) helped me get rid of wrist and thumb RSI. It stretches and gently stresses these load bearing ;) joints, thus strengthening them.

Hope this helps the last few folk before searching for RSI will be impossible due to the term being taken over.

For those afraid of Satanism in yoga, there's also non satanic variants where you don't greet each other saying Namaste or say Shanti anywhere during the practice.

brookst1 day ago
As long as we’re burying things for archaeologists to find, let it be known that AGI once stood for “adjusted gross income”, a measure used for income taxes.
ginkoabout 17 hours ago
You'd think everyone working in tech would be aware that RSI was a widely used acronym already.
jeffnash1 day ago
Reminds me a lot of omnigent (which I am a huge fan of) with a persistent memory layer. Unlike omnigent's subagent threads, the DAG it uses to coordinate other harnesses doesn't look to be durable; I am curious as to whether this is by design or is a forthcoming feature, as this essentially makes or breaks my use case of long-running project-sized implementation sessions.

In any event, it's great to see competition in this meta-harness space, which is likely one that none of the frontier labs will touch since it, by definition, would utilize their competitors' products.

marginalx1 day ago
I'm curious if you have a few mins for feedback, what are the top 2 things here that omnigent does that is significantly better for you than latest cc/codex which can launch subagents, auto save memory of a project.

I'm wondering that as these core tools continue to enhance and add these capabilities, how much of a benefit these meta harnesses actually provide.

jeffnash1 day ago
I agree the gap is narrowing quickly, especially with workflows in CC. For me, a few large advantages still remain:

1/ Allowing me to easily plug in any harness, using any provider, and make it a first-class worker. Omnigent has out of the box ACP support and it's trivial to use that to add first-class support for any harness out there. I love the ability to have CC + Opus plan, Codex + Luna implement, Pi + Qwen 3.8 give a tie-breaking opinion on a design decision that Opus flagged and Grok and Codex couldn't agree on, all orchestrated by a model of my choosing from any provider using Omnigent's main agent harness.

2/ Reusable agent systems rather than just reusable workflows. You can define agents in YAML whose subagents embody particular roles, with different models/harnesses, skills, plugins, tools, etc. preconfigured for each one.

Of course, claude workflows are now durable but Omnigent's agnt definitions are a bit more abstract in that they define the subagents that are available and how they should work by default rather than the workflow itself (i.e. the specific JTBD). If I have a common workflow that consists of, for example, Sol + Codex writing some script to scrape some data, Pi + a cheap DeepSeek-tier model formatting that data en masse, then Fable + CC doing some advanced analysis on it, I can embody that with a yaml agent definition that I can then use to run with my task of the day as a prompt. All of this is orchestrated by a model of my choice using Omnigent's harness.

This might look like: 'smart scraping agent with all sorts of scraping skills and tools pre-loaded', a 'bulk data processing agent with a cheap, fast model and plenty of pandas/numpy skills preloaded', and 'frontier model to interpret and reason on the implications of the processed data'. The main agent would have instructions about the general workflow of such tasks and when to invoke and delegate tasks to which subagent. The definition describes the workers available to the orchestrator and how they should generally behave, rather than hard-coding the workflow itself. I love that I can create those definitions and re-use them.

All that said, I am sure the labs will come up with their own similar products to (2) (e.g. dots today). I also recently noticed that Claude Code now has subagent 'teams' rather than just 'general-purpose'/'explore' subagents, and these seem to be longer-lived. This seems to be encroaching on the agent yaml definitions, albeit with less fine-grained control on my end. Therefore, the tl;dr (for me at least) is vendor neutrality; I don't think we'll ever see a product coming out of a frontier lab that eagerly delegates a task to their competitor's model (and bank account).

poeticsilence1 day ago
if you're interested in this space, is there a good way to contact you? Would love to give you early access to something I think you'll love.
calebhwin1 day ago
Dumb but honest question - do repos like this buy stars? How do they have thousands of stars with very little presence across HN/Reddit/X?
bitpush1 day ago
An accusation wrapped as a genuine question. Bravo.

Let me turn this around to you. Do you think your timelines on Reddit/X are indicative of the tech scene of {London,China,India,Indonesia}? What makes you think you know of every popular project out there?

redhale1 day ago
I don't want to be too negative, but ... all this for a 0.8% improvement in SWE-bench Verified (90.2 for OpenCode vs 91)? And why is this (saturated) benchmark the one coding benchmark chosen to showcase on the homepage?

Without trying it, this seems like its probably just a massive waste of tokens.

PcChip1 day ago
this might be a dumb question, but if it's saturated, then isn't 0.8% improvement a very good improvement?
redhale1 day ago
I'm definitely willing to be corrected, but I think it just means that this improvement is close to pure noise -- not good or bad necessarily. Just not a good signal.

To me the really bad sign is that this is the benchmark that they selected to highlight. Why not one of the less-saturated benchmarks where this harness could (in theory) show meaningful improvement over the OpenCode baseline? Seems fishy to me.

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