Accelerating the future of AI research and compute

305 points•mfiguiere•2 days ago•120 comments•

120 comments

quanto2 days ago
I hesitate to recast the discussion in a negative tone, but this doesn't sound right on technical terms.

Is World Labs' Atlas genuinely novel? Their demos do not seem to be better than the existing state of the art.

Fei Fei Li has been criticized even in the ImageNet days as a shower than a doer. Her roadshow past two years extolling "world model" in vague terms didn't show much insight, and her company's demo seems to merely rehash what has been available in the field for years. If you haven't seen the current SoTA in Gaussian splats, then World Labs' demos may seem cool, but they are mostly standard in the field now. If someone is more familiar with the inner workings of World Labs, I am happy to be corrected (but inner details wouldn't change the fact that demos are no better than SoTA).

I really had high hopes for World Labs, but I am quite saddened to realize that perhaps all this was just a financial maneuver and the detractors were right from the beginning.

source: I used to be in the downstream field: Gaussian spats for robotics. The exact field that World Labs' is supposed to help.

unconstrastive2 days ago
I get the feeling that people still think World Labs is all in on splats? I agree the original splat demos are not competitive relative to the SOTA for splats. But Atlas (https://www.worldlabs.ai/blog/atlas) is more of a generative model than a splat-oriented model. They are essentially trying to combine many useful capabilities into one omni-modal generative model. For instance, native camera pose conditioning is not a capability most video models have, and it also seems to have some SLAM/VGGT like capabilities (see blog).

Essentially, this is the first true "omni-model" that can be conditioned on anything (text, pose, depth, video) and give you any output (pose, depth, video, splats). You could argue that they are not SOTA right now relative to a traditional multi-stage pipeline, but this unified model is much more amenable to scale.

edit: they also seem to be SOTA for 3D reconstruction (better than VGGT-Omega, DAv3, pi3, which I think is very solid).

mptest1 day ago
which if you know why fei fei is famous, perfectly lines up. she was the first to turn from better algs to diverse data for training, even for super specific image classifiers. what is this, but an attempt to, like humans, make anything we can experience training data and thus a native "language" of the model.
sharts1 day ago
Didn’t she freely release much of the industry-shattering work she did on which other orgs capitalized?
jansport1231 day ago
i'm quite happy with all the scientists and ml pioneers getting paid - but it seems like we've reached a point where a billion dollar is not a big amount anymore and that is just strange for me to accept. It used to be that being a unicorn is a big deal, now they buy companies without any products for billions ... Just leads me to believe that those at the top have just become unfathomable rich - be it individuals, vc companies or corporations.
edg50002 days ago
If the World Labs people are talented, it could be just an acquihire right?
mathisfun1232 days ago
8B/200=40M (avg) per acquihire. you really think those people were worth that much?

AMD has made a lot of acquihires in the last few years. this ain't one of em.

r0b052 days ago
Correct, this is an acquisition and will benefit AMD a lot. In fact, AMD has made some great acquisitions lately and are on a roll.
kombine2 days ago
I don't think they published details but the Atlas model is a feed forward neural network, and not Gaussian splat based model. Unlike GS it works from a few images.
KeplerBoy2 days ago
Gaussian splatting is the rendering technique of projecting the gaussians into the 2D viewport. How you obtain the gaussians in the first place is a different question (feed forward prediction vs. iterative gradient descent fitting).
qurren2 days ago
I work in a highly related area. But honestly:

> has been criticized even in the ImageNet days as a shower than a doer

When has the world ever rewarded doers? It has almost always rewarded the showers. If it rewarded the doers:

* CTOs would be regarded more highly than CEOs

* A few key Apple engineers would be more well known than Steve Jobs

* Nikola Tesla would be more famous than Edison

> this was just a financial maneuver

I mean, if you could have a couple billion dollars now OR possibly $0 when OpenAI/Anthropic's models can eventually do what yours can do, I wouldn't blame you for taking the former.

itemize1232 days ago
ignoring op's out-of-place personal attacks, what about the world lab's model capability - do you agree?
altmanaltman2 days ago
You say the world doesn't reward the doers but CTOs and a few key Apple engineers were/are rewarded with heavy bags of money. They don't get the media features because the company has to pay the media to feature Steve Jobs telling us he's just a cool hippie, actually, and not a ruthless psychopath. Doing the same for the CTO serves no marketing purpose for Apple.

As for Nikola Tesla, he spent a lot of his money on things that didn't work out, like the unfinished Wardenclyffe Tower.

None of the examples you shared is the world not "rewarding" them compared to people who are not those things.

anon-sf-231232 days ago
Doing this on a throwaway to ask some awkward questions.

Way to go and all, and I suppose the investors got an exit but I still scratch my head on this one. We've seen the rise of World Labs from the beginning to this exit, and still the raw output is barely usable for any conceivable use case.

The raw output from these models is very similar or identical to what you can get to generating a splat from a camera that rotates using minimax or other frontier video models.

I work with clients in real world design contexts and the output from world labs was never usable due to all sorts of distortions and errors and stuff.

So again it's cool, but like what was all this hype about? This was usable in a very niche case if you're making video games with no care for spatial continuity and are okay with super heavy assets.

I am surely missing something as I just black box test these things for applicability in the real world, and I just never found any.

jarjoura2 days ago
They rode the gaussian splat hype train and their demos look sick. I suspect they had a big marketing push the last 6 weeks because they were looking for an exit.

Apple and Meta are the only two big companies really pushing the frontier of this space, and everyone else is trying to figure out what to do with the technology. World Labs had the best marketing demos and showed the world what you could do with it, but it's all been vaporware from where I've been sitting.

z_rho_one2 days ago
Let's just hope this is not another Magic Leap in 5 years.
asa1232 days ago
i also would like to know an answer to this
moralestapia2 days ago
Tangent comment, it's so sad you had to create a throwaway here just to express this opinion.

People shouldn't have to be afraid to post what they think of tech topics here, as long as it is not an illegal expression of speech. i.e. one shouldn't have to use a throwaway to ask sensible and valid questions.

anon-sf-231232 days ago
Yeah sorry guilty as charged -- it's hard because I've met these people IRL and yes I don't want to damage those relationships.

They're super nice, smart and capable folks. But, also as a practitioner in this space the gulf I see between stated capabilities and actual output is super big and I just don't get it.

I'm also worried I'm missing something obvious, like it's me that's the problem and that's embarrassing.

So at least I'll share that anonymously. :/

LarsDu882 days ago
This was absurdly soon.

I was also shocked by how quickly AMD acquired Talaas. AMD may be preparing for the next way (ultra fast inference, and embodied AI inference)

ahartmetz2 days ago
AMD has acquired "AI stuff" for several billions at this point, yet somehow, doing "AI stuff" on their GPU/NPU stack still seems to be troublesome. Well, that is what I read from others anyway. Inference with llama.cpp on AMD GPUs pretty much just works.
sheepscreek2 days ago
Who says that? I’m having a blast with rocm powering my R9700. Been able to run all models on day 0 at comparable speeds to Nvidia with similar memory bandwidth. Software is no longer the main bottleneck for AMD.
amelius2 days ago
I bet soon enough we can just ask AI to port stuff from CUDA to whatever language AMD is using. This is how nVidia will become a victim of their own success.
MrDrMcCoy2 days ago
Really, it's just the Python frameworks on AMD consumer GPUs that suck. AMD datacenter GPUs seem to work with them well enough, and llama.cpp crushes it for the rest of us.
cyanydeez2 days ago
If the sigmoid approacheth, the first one to get a good model into silicon, at acceptable benchmarks and silicon rejection %, will make some truckloads. Most people don't need SOTA for most of their problems.

the TAM might be a real number, but the addressee might already be walking around, such as any qwen3.8 model. Qwen3.8-Flash-Next is churning out some fascinating capabilities as we speak.

There's only so many math problems you can solve without ROI.

LarsDu882 days ago
I used to think that, but I've started to come around to the fact that better AI comes with progressive unlocks that create new use cases. I suspect in 18 months, one of the primary consumers of tokens will be people using LLMs for one-shotting increasingly complicated games rather than just white collar work.

Then there's the matter of engineering and synthesizing consumer objects completely personalized for users!

echelon2 days ago
Other embodied labs are less gamer-y/consumer-y. WorldLabs didn't know whether to be a consumer tool, a creative tooling company, a robotics research lab.

Investors who have seen their materials told me this was their direct feeling.

AbuAssar2 days ago
Is a 2-year-old company worth 8 billion USD?
kylecazar2 days ago
The past couple of years have really driven home the fact that a company is worth what someone will pay for it
jtfrench2 days ago
And that "Attention is all you need" applies to financial markets as well.
singhkays2 days ago
just like NFTs :)
DivingForGold2 days ago
... just like real estate, a willing buyer -- and a willing seller
ianm2182 days ago
AMD grew their revenue 50% last quarter from the year prior, for 11.5B in revenue. If this team can help continue that or grow that then yes - the amount of money involved here is insane.
tintor2 days ago
Could be if they are pre-revenue.
neural_thing2 days ago
They're a potential pure play
avaer2 days ago
A name like Fei-Fei Li is probably worth a chunk of that (I'm not saying I agree, but that's probably the thinking).

It's a public bet, not a valuation based on product economics. Billion dollar bets follow different rules (and I'm not saying it's sane).

JumpCrisscross2 days ago
> A name like Fei-Fei Li is probably worth a chunk of that

You're right. Her bio writes like an OP self-insert character's [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fei-Fei_Li

Glemmlko2 days ago
Honestly, I think this 'billion' number is also just the ball park for companies you need to pay if you want to buy them.

OpenRouter was sold for 7.5 Billion.

Lets just accept, that these people don't evaluate a company by value but by magic market "what is a sum someone needs to pay for buying a company and what company is somehow worth it to actually buy for this type of money but more in a sense of adding this to your portfolio"

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