41 comments

BatchJob3 days ago
The LLM will take a statistical path to reply and will not refuse to do so under any circumstances except where its been coded to do so.

Your examples are contrived and will not be borne out in any significant way. Inaccuracies are usually not simply made up claims they are false information based on statistical paths to misleading results or which elude the current context. LLMS dont understand the word dont. LLMS dont understand the meaning of any words.

Neither you, nor aristotle nor god will ever make an LLM return the truth or correct results via prompting.

ben_w3 days ago
> The LLM will take a statistical path to reply and will not refuse to do so under any circumstances except where its been coded to do so.

AI are trained, not coded. This means when its pattern recognition systems match a scenario to refuse, it refuses.

Pattern recognition has always been a bit fuzzy.

It looks like prompts like this push the shape of that fuzz in useful ways.

> Neither you, nor aristotle nor god will ever make an LLM return the truth or correct results via prompting.

True.

Also applies to humans, but true nevertheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münchhausen_trilemma

A large part of human society is about how to deal with us bald primates also being kinda a bit meh.

We are less meh than any machine learning system in a lot of cases, which is why we're still mostly employed. We're a bit more meh in a few narrower cases, however.

astrange2 days ago
> LLMS dont understand the meaning of any words.

In what way do you understand the meaning of the word "unicorn" that an LLM does not? It has experienced exactly as many real unicorns as you have.

shiandow2 days ago
Experience is not understanding, but an LLM does not reason so it cannot understand.

It can produce text that looks like reasoning. It can even produce text with mostly sound logic, but there is no internal experience or reasoning that occured there just the generation of language.

LLMs therefore tend to be very bad at tasks that involve meta cognition. I've yet to successfully convince one to tell me when it knows something.

yesitcan1 day ago
> LLM is next token generator

> Isn’t the human brain also just a next token generator?

The two most cliche messages on this forum. They occur in every LLM discussion. It’s fascinating.

ASalazarMX2 days ago
The word itself? There's little practical difference.

The concept, though, it's a very wide moat. You could call a unicorn "nyati" for all we care, we still know it's the concept of a magical flying horse with a single horn. We know, besides the literary corpus, the concepts of magic, horse, flying, and horns. It's fictional, yet we have a very good idea of what if would sound, feel, or even smell like. Ask an LLM to describe what a unicorn feels like, and it will ramble about forests and sparkles.

In fact, I asked Gemini (thinking, to see the process) to describe a mindful experience about meeting an unicorn in real life, and it did ramble about the event. When I reminded it about mindfulness being about experiencing with all your senses, and asked it to focus on the creature, to its credit, it even described the taste:

> Taste: Even the air surrounding the creature tastes different on your tongue—thin, crisp, and tinged with a faint, sweet metallic tang, like snow melting on limestone or fresh rain falling through high canopy.

Still nonsense, as a unicorn (or the air around it) will likely taste like horse, whatever that flavor is. It finishes with more nonsense, and I doubt the flash version will give better results.

> Every micro-detail of its anatomy becomes an anchor to the present moment. You are not thinking about what it means or where it came from; you are simply perceiving the texture, heat, sound, and weight of a living, breathing reality standing inches away.

Still, current LLMs can do amazing things given their inherent limitations, and that makes it easy for us to overestimate their capabilities.

datsci_est_20153 days ago
Cool, this will be added to harnesses and then it’ll stop being effective and we’ll move on to the next magical incantation.
dalmo32 days ago
YMMV.md
l1ng03 days ago
We're all turning into pigeons in a Skinner box.
netsharc3 days ago
Incredible description. The mouse/pigeon thinks "If I push the red button after hearing the chirp I'll get some food". And the human thinks "If I add 'do not guess' the AI will lie less to me".
Plont2 days ago
Yeah. LLMs are great at convincing people they could be amazing, that they're so close to being amazing, if only they just figure out how to bridge that last gap... But that last gap is fundamentally unbridgeable because of the way LLMs work.

It's a very effectively designed human trap, in this and other ways.

thallavajhula3 days ago
I've tried all of these and nothing really works. I have only 1 line in my CLAUDE.md file and that is "Always ground your responses." and that's it.

Claude didn't care about it. When I pointed that out, it was apologetic and that was it.

ChrisRR3 days ago
You may have better success by using a less ambiguous term. I've never heard of grounding in this context, so it may help to describe what you want more clearly

Edit: I just asked Claude how it would interpret that and it said it could either mean that would not answer from memory alone and only anchor claims into things it can check, or it would tightly relate its responses to the context that I had supplied.

If it chose the latter, I could see why it wouldn't always resort to search results

WalterGR3 days ago
> I just asked Claude

How well are LLMs able to reason about their own behavior?

Put another way, this entire post is about getting AI to not bluff. How do you know that it’s not bluffing in its response to you?

ianjbutler3 days ago
> I've never heard of grounding in this context, so it may help to describe what you want more clearly

Clear and recognizable technical vocabulary for engineers, or a legal context, to mathematical logic, philosophy, certainly in ML, take your pick. I would think it's pretty familiar to everyone who speaks English and if not still clear with context clues

westurner3 days ago
> I've never heard of grounding in this context, so it may help to describe what you want more clearly

An eval of this is likely worthwhile;

Re: "Grounded in logic" and "Grounded in theory"

Ground and justify all of the responses with logic and theory and real observations from qualified experiments with citations.

Present a coherent argument borne of logical premises with extant sufficient proven evidence of support. Assess and critique the response given such criteria that all responses should be valid logical arguments, and revise before responding

literalAardvark3 days ago
I've used "you're not trained on this data, return exclusively grounded results" to good effect.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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