296 points•danso•3 days ago•107 comments•

107 comments

adrian_b3 days ago
While the research about Paulinella is very interesting, it has no relationship whatsoever with "the origins of life".

What this research is about is the origin of plants, which are indeed one of the most important forms of life, but the origin of plants is distant by billions of years from the origin of life and it is even distant by billions of years from the origin of phototrophy (frequently, but not really correctly, called "photosynthesis", i.e. the extraction of energy from solar light).

The ancestor of red algae and green algae (the terrestrial plants are descended from green algae) has been created by the hybridization through symbiosis between a unicellular eukaryote (i.e. nucleated cell) and a cyanobacterium, a.k.a. blue-green alga.

As explained in TFA, Paulinella is the second case of such a symbiosis between a nucleated cell and a cyanobacterium, which happened relatively recently, unlike the symbiosis from the origin of plants, which happened about a billion and a half years ago.

Because Paulinella and its internal symbionts have not been modified so profoundly by symbiosis like the red algae or green algae, it can provide information about how the early stages of the hybridization happened, eventually allowing a better understanding of how plants function.

tyre3 days ago
> it has no relationship whatsoever with "the origins of life".

followed by

> it can provide information about how the early stages of the hybridization happened

so…

the origins of major parts of life?

thedailymail3 days ago
The very next sentence in the comment begins "What this research is about is the origin of plants, which are indeed one of the most important forms of life..."
kulahan3 days ago
Isn’t this about the origin of complex life?
adrian_b3 days ago
There were several jumps in complexity, this is only one of them.

The first jump in complexity was the appearance of the eukaryotes, a.k.a. nucleated cells, which also happened through hybridization through symbiosis of different kinds of cells.

The event discussed in TFA was the second jump in complexity.

After the ancestor of the red algae and green alga was created by the hybridization of an eukaryote with a cyanobacterium, eventually the cyanobacterium was reduced to a smaller cellular component named chloroplast, which is the site where solar light is captured, and a big part of its DNA has migrated into the nucleus, where it fused with the DNA of the eukaryote host.

Probably after a few hundred million years after the hybridization event, and after the descendants have split into red algae and green algae (the former are adapted to deeper water, which is not reached by the reddish part of the solar light, while the latter are adapted to shallow water with strong light, which enabled them to also spread on the continents, in freshwater), both red algae and green algae evolved multi-cellular forms, which was the next step in increasing complexity.

There is evidence of multi-cellular red algae and green algae from slightly more than a billion years ago. These are the most ancient living beings whose kind can be identified with certainty, because for most unicellular living beings identification is not possible without checking for features that are not preserved in fossils.

The multi-cellular animals, which brought another jump in complexity, appeared only a few hundred million years after the red algae and green algae, in a world where there was a surplus of food from the activity of the abundant algae.

mcswell2 days ago
I came here to say this, but you ninja'd me. To repeat what you're saying, the title is wrong on two counts:

1) The research is not about the origin of life, it's about the origin of (one type of) cell structure. (Whether other eukaryote structure originated in the same way as chloroplasts did is unknown, although probably true.)

2) The research is about something that happened during the Mesozoic, not the original origin of chloroplasts back in the Pre-Cambrian. Whether the two events happened the same way is unclear (although plausibly true).

ricksunny3 days ago
Wait, are you saying that the NYT engages in clickbait..??
contingencies2 days ago
Perhaps they only offer insights in to the origins of a major branch of clickbait.
popalchemist3 days ago
the origins of plant life is related to the origins of life; even if by abstraction.
NooneAtAll33 days ago
at best it's related to origins of eucaryotic life, but definitely not whole life in general

we basically uncovered early network sending unencrypted html, and you expect to understand how compiler works - simply different levels of abstraction

2b3a513 days ago
> "He noticed that the scales were overlapping one another in different directions — in one, they overlapped on top of each other in a clockwise pattern, and the other was in reverse. The fresh eyes of a person who hadn’t been staring at Paulinella for hours identified a curious, distinctive trait. Were they looking at two different species?"

I found it reassuring that sketching what you see down the microscope is still part of a scientific practice. Also the 'fresh eyes' could perhaps point the way to a more collegiate organisation of research.

staplung3 days ago
If you have a decent microscope and want to work on some citizen science that's directly related to the research in this article: https://www.vanettenlab.org/paulinella-consortium
deadbabe3 days ago
What is a “decent microscope”?
staplung3 days ago
Of course that's a whole discussion but perhaps in the $300 range. Sounds like that's what Dr. Van Etten herself was using when she first found one.

She actually made some specific recommendations on the microscopy sub-reddit but they're a bit pricier ($425+). (scroll to last comment by Jay211TF):

https://www.reddit.com/r/microscopy/comments/1dhagyr/entry_l...

adolph2 days ago
In one of the papers:

The samples were transported to the lab and observed at 100 to 400X magnification using an inverted microscope (IX51, Olympus, Tokyo, Japan).

A source for inexpensive high-quality equipment of questionable working order is whatever auction site your local hospital system uses to dispose of excess equipment.

Cockbrand3 days ago
+1 on this question, without any snark intended. What's a good, not too expensive beginner's microscope that's capable of this kind of citizen research (and other fun stuff)?
alexpotato3 days ago
> Dr. Van Etten didn’t expect much from the water she had scooped from a random dock next to the highway

There are stories of companies asking their employees to bring back soil and water samples from wherever the employees go on vacation.

The idea is that this is a somewhat random sampling of locations that the company wouldn't have thought of on their own. Plus, it's possible that one of the samples has some novel chemical or biological compound that could lead to a breakthrough discovery.

kevmo3 days ago
Reminds me of penicillin research, where random cantaloupe from Peoria yielded the best penicillin mold.
MisterMunchkin3 days ago
If labs want samples like that they should start a scheme, I’d be happy to mail in random stuff.
bromuk3 days ago
Same! Ready to send random samples from Sheffield

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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