210 points•signa11•4 days ago•100 comments•

100 comments

pech0rin4 days ago
Stack overflow was one of the best ways to learn and mature as an engineer “back in the day”. The meme is that devs would copy and paste and hope it worked. The reality was more like you had an obscure bug, you wrote a detailed and cohesive question, and you connected with people who were more knowledgable and would help you.

It also sharpened your writing and thinking. By responding to questions you solidified your understanding of topics.

It got a lot of hate for the moderation but I think that was mainly in huge communities where literally “dumb” questions got bombarded every minute. Smaller tech like Docker when it first arrived on the scene had communities that learned together.

Spent a lot of time there when I was a few years out of school and still trying to figure out what it meant to be a software eng. It’s sad to see it become a ghost town and I think it’s a net negative for young engineers to have an all knowing entity spit out every answer.

noduerme4 days ago
You touched on what made it great, along with other forums where devs helped each other: It was a pleasure to read and try to answer other people's questions. NOT for the points! Because you found out so much about the problems other people were trying to solve, parallel to your own. The good questions forced you think what would I do in that situation and become a better coder yourself.

I may have asked 20 questions on Stack Overflow in 20 years. But I probably answered several thousand. Whatever I was deeply interested in at the moment, there was no better way to learn more than to try to answer those tough questions. It was like a hobby, during a few minutes of downtime, to just cruise around looking for database optimization problems... the way some people might pick up a Sudoku puzzle. It would keep me in the zone.

A lot of the mods sucked, and they had to deal with deluges of spam from kids asking for answers to CS exam questions... but hunting for the really juicy questions that couldn't be answered with a search was part of the fun.

I mourn for the generations that will never get to use their brains.

fartfeatures4 days ago
> I mourn for the generations that will never get to use their brains.

If you aren't using the incredible technology we have around us right now to accelerate your learning then it is us that should be mourning your loss of imagination.

fartfeatures4 days ago
My experience was different. I'd post on StackOverflow as an absolute last resort when I couldn't solve my problem any other way. The knowledge there was great, the kindness was sorely lacking. That's what ultimately did it in if you ask me. It got a (deserved in my opinion) reputation for unkindness way before LLMs came on the scene.
Gigachad4 days ago
I think that’s why Reddit and discord haven’t been harmed nearly as much. They have a reputation for being a lot kinder than stack overflow for basic questions. Meanwhile stack overflow was dead pretty much immediately after people got an alternative.
jjav4 days ago
> It got a lot of hate for the moderation

I can say that easily over 90% (pretty close to 100%) of the most useful answers I would find in stackoverflow back in the day, were from questions/threads that were locked as bad questions (forget what term they used) by those horrible moderators.

It was literally a joke. Every good question with thoughful useful answers, was always poo poo'ed by the moderators.

The only reason stackoverflow remained useful is that those questions and threads remained available and were a treasure trove of useful information. If they'd actually deleted the threads moderators declared useless, there would have been zero useful content on the site.

It is really a monument to failed moderation policies.

stackghost4 days ago
>The meme is that devs would copy and paste and hope it worked. The reality was more like you had an obscure bug, you wrote a detailed and cohesive question, and you connected with people who were more knowledgable and would help you.

Au contraire, the reality was more like you had an obscure bug, you wrote a detailed and cohesive question, and it was immediately closed as a duplicate of something unrelated but with a superficially-similar name from 5 years prior, and then you were threatened with a ban.

StackOverflow was easily one of the most toxic communities on the internet and I don't miss it.

margalabargala4 days ago
> I think it’s a net negative for young engineers to have an all knowing entity spit out every answer.

I agree with the rest of your comment, and I sympathize with what you're saying here, but really this only applies when measuring engineers against a yardstick that frankly is rapidly in the process of no longer existing.

As an industry rather than an art form, software is measured by its output.

kstenerud4 days ago
Maybe I'm remembering a different Stack Overflow.

Yes, there were genuinely helpful people there. I strove to be helpful as well. But my most common experience there was:

- People asking why you're doing that (without answering the question).

- People telling you that you shouldn't do that (without answering the question or providing an alternative).

- People closing your question as off-topic or duplicate without actually reading and understanding what you wrote.

- People editing your question and changing the meaning (leading others to innocently conclude off-topic or duplicate). Or removing actually important details.

- People giving just plain wrong answers that get upvoted, with comments from more senior people begging them to change or remove it.

Or in the words of Brick Top: "If I throw a dog a bone, I don't want to know if it tastes good or not."

And yes, every so often a golden answer by an amazing person.

Now I can just ask a few LLMs, comparing and contrasting their answers. Even better: I can interrogate them on their answer.

Stack Overflow had a community of sorts, but it wasn't anywhere near like a physical community.

We may work online, but we exist in the flesh.

YZF4 days ago
This was probably a bit later. And those LLMs are trained on SO presumably...

In the earlier days SO was more of a community. I guess the life-cycle of the Internet. I answered a few question back in the day. Asked a few. All in all positive experience. I still look fondly at some of my better accepted answers...

joe_the_user4 days ago
I definitely enjoyed SO at the start. But the site was "gamified" from the start - initially, it was gamified so with some skill and effort you could progress. Gradually the gamification reached the point that any progression required constant effort.

Unfortunately, it's hard to see the Internet having cycles overall. It's been more like a spiral over the last 35 years or so.

Cider99864 days ago
On the GrapheneOS forum, I enjoy answering the questions in a post of user who just set up their phone.

AI does not have as good knowledge of the OS as frequent forum contributors. I'm sure plenty of people get by with AI help for their questions and there's likely little questions that hasn't been already discussed, but I love to see new people using the OS and it doesn't take long to give them an exact answer. The Flarum software that the forum runs is very fast, as well.

gfody4 days ago
the sense of community on the internet from 1995 to 2010 was incredible. industry devs running into tricky situations and just asking for help on irc, newsgroups like comp.lang.*, then forums, places like expert-sexchange and gamedev.net - the people that helped were like heroes and mentors and the urge to pay it forward was real and strong. stackoverflow was cool when it first launched - then something happened to it, like someone unleashed a hundred thousand pent up devs from an underground cave where they had been torturing them with mind games where they're forced to sabotage each other and stuff like collaboration and encouragement was punished - all rushed in at once like a lethal injection and the sense of community was soon dead

I suspect that a lot of the stuff everyone recognizes as AI-isms/writing tics - is actually just the way genX'ers sounded when they were explaining things to strangers on the internet

altcognito4 days ago
We had better have even more time to help each other as a result of LLMs, or what are we even doing here?

I realize that everything seems to be about increasing the pace of life, but this is another "chance" for humanity to figure things out.

Arainach4 days ago
The people who control the LLMs would rather be 0.1% richer than have any/every other person on the planet feel better in any way.
NL8074 days ago
The flaw with this argument is the assumption people who control the LLMs is the sole problem. Plenty of people use LLMs for personal gain at the cost of others.
vasco4 days ago
No increases in productivity ever led to less working hours, only organized action. We work more hours than miedeval serfs.
JuniperMesos4 days ago
This is not actually true, pretty much everyone today works much less than the vast majority of people in the medieval world.
isolay4 days ago
Fewer working hours.
Retric4 days ago
Serfs had fewer incentives to work more hours.

Capitalism is optimized to produce products and services people want to buy which drives people wanting to work more hours. Which then drives up the costs of things that aren’t replicated endlessly like land and goods that are intentionally left scarce such as admission to elite institutions.

You can work dramatically less and still live well, but the sirens call is very seductive. Food, clothes, transportation, housing, etc all offer real value at minimal cost and little pushing you in that direction.

Towaway694 days ago
The faster they move, the faster they’re gone.

I hope when they arrive they send postcards.

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