Such strikes aim to disrupt "people's ability to stay connected, study, work", says Ukraine's president.

102 points•dabinat•5 days ago•153 comments•

153 comments

logicchains5 days ago
With this and the data center destruction in the Gulf, maybe in future countries will need to move to constructing datacenters deep underground to protect them. Probably more expensive, but I imagine still cheaper than building data centers in space.
dzhiurgis5 days ago
Same solar panel wattage yields something like 10-15x more power in space. Given biggest shortage for building on earth has been power - I don’t see it being actually cheaper.

Sure there are other issues with getting there, cooling, radiation. But for cost of power prices - space has huge advantage.

Also seems a lot of people on far left seem agree we shouldn’t be building them which yields extra support for SpaceX.

altcognito5 days ago
And would actually be protected, unlike data centers in space
wolvoleo5 days ago
Data centers in space would be well protected from anyone but nation state level actors though. I always wonder if this is the real reason musk wants to do this. If AI will displace as many jobs as some people predict I'm sure many datacenters would be the target of angry pitchfork mobs.
troupo5 days ago
Remember when Internet was supposed to withstand nuclear war?
running1015 days ago
Z should hit Russian data centers.
boardwaalk5 days ago
Is anybody calling him Z or is this just laziness? It seems in bad taste anyways, given Russia is basically using Z as their swastika...
tim3335 days ago
I've typed Z before. Kind of laziness / nick name.
stickfigure5 days ago
It's a mistake to blindly adopt tit-for-tat. Presumably Z has a list of important targets and is working his way down. Maybe data centers rank, maybe they don't.

During the Battle of Britain, Churchill ordered a bombing attack on Berlin. Consequently, Hitler ordered Göring to switch from attacking military infrastructure to attacking London. This is widely considered to have been a significant strategic mistake that helped the British win the Battle of Britain.

verdverm5 days ago
I would imagine data centers would have more military value for Ruzzia than Wildberry, but also a significant escalation (which Ruzzia has now seemingly done)

Data centers are now dual use infrastructure and valid war targets

EA-31675 days ago
Sounds like Russia should make the first move to de-escalate given their role in starting this invasion and spending so much time striking civilian Ukrainian targets.
subscribed5 days ago
Russians terrorists are already primarily targeting schools, shelters, residential buildings, energy infrastructure, etc.

One of the first acts of was a destruction of the dam.

"It's a mistake to blindly adopt tit for tat" - what are they going to do, bomb some datacentres or power plants (again)?

I hope Ukraine is going to bring a major inconvenience to Russia before this winter. Otherwise kacaps are going to continue supporting this outrageous aggression.

ndsipa_pomu5 days ago
Attacking Russian supply lines and logistics capability seems to be far more effective in stopping the Russian ability to wage war. Attacking data centres is likely only going to marginally hurt their economy.
onepointsixC5 days ago
Interesting thought, I wonder how easy or difficult it would be to replace data centers for Russia right now.
lostlogin5 days ago
It’s pretty hard to replace a stick of RAM compared to 5 years ago, so there’s that.
icannotstandit4 days ago
I will not comment on the comparisons on this thread with nazi Germany, though as a person who lives abroad and is a native Russian speaker, and who understans a bit more about the causes of this war than the average american joe, then at least from the point of view of rabid nationalism and hatred of people based on their nationality, the Germany here is you and your friends in Kiev, and not Russia.

Sorry, but nothing will change this basic truth: just as an example: remember permitting hate speech on your social networks against Russians, then "retracted" with no visible effect? I do.

Effectively suppressing on your web forums discussions of ukranian "nationalism" (a very soft word to describe it) is another example, but there is much more.

secondary_op5 days ago
News like this getting posted and then echoes in meaningless reactionary commentary of clueless or otherwise motivated usernames is not gonna fly on my watch.

“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.” - Henry Kissinger

“Were there not an Israel, the US would have to invent an Israel to protect our interests in the region“ – Joe Biden, 1986

“The Russians are dying. It’s the best money we’ve ever spent.“ – senator of USA

“The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war“ – Julian Assange

“Soon after 9/11, former General Wesley Clark visited the Pentagon and saw plans for regime change in seven countries in five years: "Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & finishing it off with Iran.“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westsplaining

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Principles_of_State_Lan...

tim3335 days ago
I'm not sure that whataboutism is very relevant.
shevy-java5 days ago
At this point in time I think a few key observations should be clear:

- Putin wages an invasion, with the primary goal to occupy territory. This is what they officially say too, bla bla bla Ukraine should give up Donbass etc... bla bla bla.

- At the same time, Putin also wages a genocide. This is in many ways similar to other wars, e. g. Israel expanding and occupying Palestine, just on a large scale Putin commits to his genocidal war ambition here (see the rumours of another wave of upcoming mass mobilization in Russia).

- Unfortunately, and this is an even bigger problem for more people in the future: Putin has no interest and desire, but also no longer any real possibility to end his war. He married the thought of the war to not only his own personal survival but that of imperialistic Russia. I don't really see how negotiations could work now (Trump acting as agent Krasnov won't do anything useful anyway, other than be a spokesperson for Putin - note that Yuri predicted this in the 1980s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5It1zarINv0) and this means Putin can only escalate further. While many think Putin is insane, I think the path of escalation "makes sense" IF you are willing to use nukes. While the USA meta-jabait trolls ("he won't use nukes"), I am pretty certain that he would. Which then brings us to the biggest question here:

- Why is the EU not already mass-producing nukes for all member states?

It can not continue that terrorists such as Putin continue to threaten europeans with total annihilation. Relying on the USA is a losing strategy; a replacement for NATO is necessary, one that can also include more actors, including Canadians. Either way I do not understand european politicians refusing to build up a nuclear arsenal for all members in the EU. That makes no sense. We all know Russia under Putin will continue to escalate daily. At some point these EU politicians then have to answer why they did not build up nukes. Agent Krasnov will never harm his business partner - he maximizes on his own personal wealth. Worst US president ever but best russian asset.

altmanaltman5 days ago
What would be the point of nuking Ukraine if you want to occupy it?

Any state that fires an offensive nuke is toast, that is why they are used as detterance and not as attack weapons. MAD is a very real thing. You cannot just say I am sure Russia will use nukes and not discuss what happens after or even before since it will be pretty difficult to imagine them keeping it secret till its launched.

Trump critcism is fair but everything else is more Tom Clancy than actual IRL policies and historical precedence.

dingaling5 days ago
> MAD is a very real thing.

As repeatedly stated over the years, it is _not_.

Every nuclear nation plans on winning a nuclear exchange. Of course, what 'winning' means is debatable, but they very much plan to beat the threat and not just bluster about mutual nuclear annihilation.

lostlogin5 days ago
> Any state that fires an offensive nuke is toast

Do you really think the U.S. would attack Russia? Do you think the U.S. would allow the EU to level Russia (which it probably doesn’t have the ability to do)?

chasd005 days ago
What Putin is feeling out is the very real possibility he uses a nuke on Kyiv or invades/attacks a NATO member and Europe just wrings their hands and turns away.

edit: there's no difference between launching a conventional cruise missile and one armed with a nuclear warhead. You'll only know after the attack not before.

throw930393930e5 days ago
> Either way I do not understand european politicians refusing to build up a nuclear arsenal for all members in the EU. That makes no sense

I am not sure if you are trolling. Producing nukes takes time, even with advanced industrial economy like EU, it would take a few months to develop and test nukes. And I would not trust country like Hungary with nukes!

Much more effective is to manufacture weapons. Soon EU will double its tank production to 5 dozens a year!

lostlogin5 days ago
> I would not trust country like Hungary with nukes!

Recent German, French and Italian elections are a cause for concern too.

rebuilder5 days ago
A few months? Really? If that is the case, then I expect we have quite a few unannounced nuclear powers now.
tim3335 days ago
I don't think everybody gets a nuke is the answer. There are obvious downsides to that one.
dabinat5 days ago
In the book 1984, the country was at war with another country. Then they changed which country they were at war with overnight, modifying history books to pretend they had always been at war with that country. The public just went along with it.

If Putin wants an exit strategy (I’m not sure he does), he can simply declare that all terrorists were defeated and the “special operation” achieved its goal. Then hold a victory parade and have state media say that Russia won. The Russian public would be so glad the war was over that they wouldn’t care.

lostlogin5 days ago
In your scenario, I’d love to know what The White House and Congress say.

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