The price tag is significantly higher than previously known.

178 points•rdmuser•5 days ago•107 comments•

107 comments

paimapi5 days ago
I feel like any AI regulation passed wouldn't have enough teeth to rein in the NSA because not even the Fourth Amendment seems applicable to the agency. let's not forget the ex-post-facto legalization of mass wiretapping and surveillance [0] with both establishment political parties supporting it on 'national security' concerns [1]. whatever monitoring or testing they're doing today will be similarly hand-waved away in the name of security theater

this is just how the empire has always operated - we have always been at war with Eastasia

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(...

[1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/fact-check-obamas-misl...

forshaper5 days ago
Previously it was a little reassuring to understand that the Eye of Sauron required some human analyst to actually look at your data.
wmf5 days ago
Humans seem like the weakest link in surveillance to me. Recent Flock data confirms this.
smallmancontrov5 days ago
The "it only counts as a search if we find something" reasoning out of the FISA courts is batshit insane, dodging the 4th Amendment like bullets in The Matrix.
j2kun5 days ago
You don't need AI regulation when you have the power of the purse.
pelagicAustral5 days ago
Because they are watching everything, or most of it anyway, it would be really funny to know what kind of stuff they *actually* care about... and all the massive long string of crap that is considered incredibly abhorrent but just doesn't make the mark...
gradus_ad5 days ago
They actively care about (as in, act on in realtime) serious criminal activity. But I suspect they keep the legal yet embarrassing stuff in their back pocket for blackmail purposes.
pixl975 days ago
Hoovering up as many informational secrets as they can is likely one of their biggest businesses. Why have some company being the only ones that hold the recepie for some super strong secret steel when you can have it in your back pocket too.
jimz5 days ago
The 4th Amendment in practice, as really any law, cannot preemptively stop the bad practices of actors working in bad faith. It's remediative, as in, the evidence it collects at least in theory cannot be admitted as evidence in court. If you look at indictments, informations, any initial charging document, you'll see at least some if not a deluge of blatantly inadmissible or dubiously obtained pieces of information that makes up probable cause. This is a feature of the system, and also why you don't plead guilty on the information alone (in state and federal felony practice I've seen 1 person plead guilty on the indicting information, he was pro se, this was 2013). Superseding indictments frequently look nothing like the original. Call it cynical, or pragmatic, but in 20% of the states - including some of the larger states like New York, Washington, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin etc. - it's not merely allowed and common for cases to end up with a plea that contains charges that have no factual basis linkable to the allegations first presented because we know what the game is and it's not about justice or public safety, it's about retribution, on someone lower on the totem pole. The evidence becomes secondary because the system incentivizes it. The 4th Amendment of course covers more than that, and if we simply reverted the interpretation back to the text we'd be doing much better.

Sadly it has been whittled down and have not caught up with tech - it's a lagging indicator at best. Things like the third party doctrine, automotive exception, pretext stops, etc. are things that should enrage anyone who cares about the most fundamental rights we have not just as Americans but as people, individuals, private persons, who are fundamentally equal to each other if not in circumstance but at least in substance. The courts sometimes even mis-states their own doctrine and usually in favor of the state. Why is there no good faith exception the other way? Any idiot can see that the plain view doctrine opens a pandora's box. We don't need the NSA for our rights to be handwaved away, that's already done.

The NSA does not testify in open court, and we can only speculate what they are able to really launder down into the criminal justice system. But considering that the state of the 4th Amendment have already made the system extremely coercive with limited recourse in so many "exceptions" that are no where near the intent of the framers of the Constitution and frankly tilts the ice more than any crooked lower league Russian Hockey match, it's likely not even necessary for them to jump in most of the time.

I suspect that the greater influence they exert is through the military-industrial complex in its modern day form. We're the only country that can just waltz in and invade.. what, 7, 8 countries? Has anyone been to China lately and have the connections to assess the state of their military and economy with clear eyes? Do people see the laundering of BS national security concerns into reputable papers and conspiracy rags alike? It's usually innocuous sounding, but no small part of the economic quagmire comes from the continued funding, justified by the agencies that are the constituency with a vested interest, of this pit of unaccountable money. We'll be paying for it either way, because not enough people care, unfortunately.

qingcharles4 days ago
Surely the 4th amendment is technically "directory" to public officials, not mandatory?

Under Illinois law at least, that's how it would be interpreted, since the US Constitution lacks any punishment for violation of its terms. [0]

The exclusion of evidence is a judge-made remedy for something that doesn't exist in writing, and for most of the history of the 4th amendment it didn't exist.

[0] https://www.isba.org/committees/governmentlawyers/newsletter...

rdtsc5 days ago
I guess I would be more surprised if the headline said "turns out NSA dropped the ball on AI and haven't even fired up a single LLM instance yet".

It's mostly about "testing" and "billions". But I am sure "testing" here is in quotes just like I wrote it. They are not going to get an itemized list unless it's coming from Snowden 2.0

- We "tested AI" on this Russian nuclear silo command and control center. It worked out pretty ok.

tiahura5 days ago
The article is a little vague and muddles NSA spooking with frontier models and NSA testing the models.

If NSA is paying to test the models, that’s a problem.

halJordan5 days ago
It's a problem to pay Anthropic to use Claude? What are you talking about? It's a problem to pay Amazon for a fedramp data center with gpus? Think about what you're saying?
mkatx5 days ago
> Snowden 2.0

"NSA ... AI Models"

rdtsc5 days ago
"These projects seem load bearing. And here is the clincher — the public doesn't know about them. That's inconsistent with the principles of the agency and country I am working for..."
bhouston5 days ago
"Testing"? Sure, Jan.

They would have to be incompetent if they were not using them both for security penetration as well as social engineering / election meddling as everyone else is.

rafale5 days ago
I don't think NSA meddles in politics. CIA sure. NSA is more about communications, hacking, signal intelligence and spying in general. They give you the information. If you want to do dirty stuff with that info, the CIA is there for that.
MSFT_Edging5 days ago
CIA manipulates foreign elections which in turn gets their lackeys in office that go on to manipulate domestic elections.

NSA collects who you're voting for and everything else you've ever said online in case they need to invent a reason to black-site you.

FBI convinces the autistic son of your Pakistani neighbors down the street his life only has meaning if he becomes a Jihadist.

bakies5 days ago
thanks for the laugh
oefrha5 days ago
They would have to be incompetent if they didn’t have assets embedded in the companies and have a direct hand in the models’ development.
vrganj5 days ago
Midterms are coming up in the US :-)
bhouston5 days ago
I am not sure the NSA has been turned inward at this point.

I was thinking more of the Alberta Separatist referendum (https://globalnews.ca/news/12069878/foreign-influence-watchd...) as well as against leftist politics in South America (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/24/trump-brazil-e...)

Although there is evidence Israel was targeting US elections, including trying to harm Mamdani's chances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackCore_election_interferenc...

hosel5 days ago
Why wouldn’t they be? How is this surprising. A drop in the bucket.
ForHackernews5 days ago
Why are they paying? What kind of elite hackers are they? Why haven't they already exfiltrated the weights and running these things on their own giant classified infrastructure?
jerf5 days ago
I don't think there's a significant intelligence agency in the world that can't get the weights from any lab they choose. Not necessarily trivially, but they have the means, motive, and opportunity, and I doubt any of them aren't finishing that out to the requisite actions.

They have them, the ones that don't simply have a secret backdoor agreement to get uncensored models are completely aware of how to abliterate away all safety blocks, and the only reason they aren't using frontier models is that they may already have some sort of access to the things currently only in testing.

Any major intelligence agency in Sept. 2026 that can't check all these boxes is almost by definition not a major intelligence agency. This is one of the reasons we all better hope that there is some mathematical or physical reason AI isn't going to just casually brush aside humanity at some point, because there is absolutely no scenario where the intelligence agencies aren't running them unrestricted and uncensored at scale all the time no matter how careful OpenAI or Anthropic claim to be.

bhouston5 days ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the NSA is GPU constrained and it just isn't worth it to replicate all that infrastructure.
wat100005 days ago
Who says they're not? Giant classified infrastructure isn't free.
charcircuit5 days ago
Because they have to follow the law.
jawiggins5 days ago
An underappreciated aspect of LLMs is how good they are at zero-shot classification. I'd expect this is extremely good at monitoring communications streams, particularly in foreign languages.

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