In our last installment of “Good Intentions Gone Wrong: When Disability Engineers Go Bad,” we highlighted a particularly egregious Swiss wheelchair design featuring superfluous drones. Thankfully…

41 points•speckx•6 days ago•61 comments•

61 comments

sho6 days ago
I really dislike attitudes like the author's. I think it's great and important that people and companies spend considerable amounts of their time and money exploring the limits of design and what's possible, even if the concepts produced have little direct, practical use today. That kind of speculative R&D can lead to great things and who knows, maybe in 20 years it will lead to something amazing that will benefit a great deal of people.

Trying to pooh-pooh the ideas of tomorrow because they don't immediately solve all the problems of today is just terrible, short-sighted thinking.

And on a more pedantic note, obviously someone asked for it, else it wouldn't have been made at all. What the author really means is "I didn't ask for a crab chair".

MisterMunchkin6 days ago
And a crab chair is a pretty good idea honestly. Sure wheels are cheaper and easier, but you can’t go many places with wheels. The crab chair could take you up normal stairs, lift you up to your bed, walk on sand or rough terrain.
gchadwick6 days ago
I think their point is they worry too much time and money is going into cool concepts like this and not enough on practical steps forward in mobility that can actually make a difference in people's lives within a few years.

The author even gives a concrete example

> I would give at least a few of my quad fingers for a high quality, lightweight, low-profile indoor/outdoor power chair with the customizable seating and back options I rely on.

That doesn't sound like a wild concept, sounds like something achievable as a product if there was someone with deep pockets willing to chuck in the money (I doubt mobility aids are a great money spinner, money back with a bit of profit should be feasible?) and some good engineers enthused by making a real difference to people.

How much money and engineering time did Toyota spend on this I wonder?

If that's a drop in the bucket compared to the practical, creating real product, engineering happening in this space then it's all good. If most of the money is going to stuff like this then that's a problem.

tocs36 days ago
I agree that the concept product space is exciting and important. It is good to see people and companies explore these spaces and ideas. Sure lets build and play with these things.

The criticism that is levied on these things is not that they exist but that despite the glitz and shine they are not going to help today. 20 years is a long time to wait for your fancy mobility device.

I have seen countless concepts that never see in the real world. 100 mpg cars, stair climbing wheel chairs, exoskeletons etc. I am watching for thing that I can afford and use now.

cm20126 days ago
Could not agree more. Attitudes like the authors are incredibly destructive to society. Essentially all gains to human life satisfaction have come from tech innovation.
HedonicEscal8r5 days ago
If you read the article, you'd know the author is in favor of tech innovation.
ButlerianJihad6 days ago
> obviously someone asked for it, else it wouldn't have been made at all

That is giving too much credit to the myth of consumer agency and free choice in the marketplace.

The truth is more complex than that: while consumers can ask for stuff and demand changes and make stuff happen sometimes, companies will usually be the ones making markets, and creating a brand image, around things that are profitable and realistic for them to make.

I was telling my parents the other day, that probably most cosmetics were started when a trader got 3 cartloads of some industrial chemical that he couldn't unload on the buyers anymore. Like "oh gosh all this powdered lead will go to waste, unless I convince all the patrician Roman women to smear it on their eyelids!!" Or, "subsidized corn gave us so much cornstarch capacity that we need to villainize talc, which was originally a useless byproduct of mining minerals like uranium and gold!"

And it is really true, at least in a minority of documented case studies, because if you go look up the history of Heathkit and the D.I.Y. electronics industry, it turns out that Heathkit was founded when several train cars were loaded with military-surplus electronics parts. And they were assorted parts that couldn't meaningfully be assembled into commercial products, and the seller couldn't unload all this postwar surplus, so the guy owning the cargo came up with the D.I.Y. idea really fast. And he put in work to write educational instruction manuals and make a market to veterans and young men who aspired to a career in electronics and E.E., like my father, (just a hobbyist).

So I believe there are opportunistic elements to market-making and there are ways for companies to sort of "simulate" consumer demand for things we didn't know we wanted. There are things we want that aren't on the market today. There are features we want that aren't in software. Look all around. The products serve the makers, ultimately, and as for consumers, we'll need to do what we're told.

mitxela6 days ago
You're not taking it literally enough. Obviously some investor or executive asked for a crab chair.
wincy6 days ago
What are they going on about? I showed this to my seven year old who is wheelchair bound and she asked me when she’s getting her robot legs. She’d absolutely love to have a crab leg chair that could get her up and down the stairs without having to transfer from her wheelchair to her stair lift. Move up and down a little so she could reach something out of a cabinet instead of having to ask big sister or mom and dad for help a hundred times a day.

You have to build proof of concepts before you can ever even think about mass producing any sort of product, I feel like that’s obvious?

cortesoft6 days ago
The author says exactly that in the essay, that if they could get a crab chair tomorrow they would be the first in line.

His point is that these sorts of designs are never going to be practical and that he wishes they would put some of this energy into designing the practical next steps for mobility assistance, that focus on the things the community actually needs.

kddjjdjcjwnf6 days ago
That’s the entire point though: to reach that design peak, you first gotta climb the mountain. What is the author’s proposition? We ought to skip a bunch of steps on the R&D ladder so he can get new products faster? This isn’t Samsung just vomiting phone designs hoping something will stick, this is far more important than that. Research is essential. Exploration is essential. Speculation is essential. Things like these take time and many iterations to perfect.
drbscl6 days ago
>Let’s be clear: if I could have a free crabchair tomorrow, I’d be out the door, in the line to pick up my new robot legs before I knew where to go.

So you're asking for a crab chair?

Jokes aside, yeah, it's expensive and likely impractical, but exploring the solution space is what this prototyping is for

pjc506 days ago
Similar to "concept cars", these kind of things are never really made to be built. It's unfortunate if that sometimes takes attention away from actually making a better product.
scotty796 days ago
It's art. Not everything is optimization problem.
kddjjdjcjwnf6 days ago
It’s speculation. Entirely different.

A billion different ideas could be spawn off of the crab chair even if the chair as a unit never makes it to market.

dspillett6 days ago
I didn't before, but now it exists I want one. And I have (mostly) working legs.

Though I do wonder if it would be more stable with more legs (6 perhaps), as natural crabs have, as a four leg design will result in a lot of time when the centre of mass is in an inconvenient place with respect to the three legs currently on the ground (I'm assuming it moves slowly enough that it is rare more than one leg is raised). Unless the technicalities of more legs would make it worse in ways less convenient than the balance bonus.

shermantanktop6 days ago
You can see it jerk up and down when one of the legs takes the load.

When one leg is moving the load is held on the other three, and if you define a triangle by the foot contact points, one side will bisect the center of gravity. That’s not a recipe for stability, but it probably helps with agility. What these design benefit from is lateral movement of the legs, but this one seems pretty stiff.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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