You can tell how tired someone is of the always-online life pretty easily. When they get home, watch the distance between the phone and the body. The people who love being connected never let the thing leave them be it…

144 points•sagacity•6 days ago•160 comments•

160 comments

cjpearson6 days ago
The emotions are relatable, but the examples are strange and don't back up his argument. It is true that there are many situations in modern life where a smartphone has become effectively mandatory.

But Ali Express is not one of those. It's very feasible to delete the app, or at least turn off the notifications. The quality of TV writing may have taken a nosedive but nobody is forcing you to watch TikTok Empire. If you long for the golden age of television, you can find disc versions of The Wire, Mad Men, The Sopranos etc. Often they're free to borrow at your local library. The App Store is indeed garbage, but I open it a handful of times per year and probably spend less than a minute to search for the app I want and install it.

The argument about losing control to devices would be much more effective if the examples weren't mainly cases where the user clearly has control.

dwedge6 days ago
I don't think you can track a package now without the app on aliexpress. It might be another website but expect it to become more common
alnwlsn6 days ago
You can on the desktop website, I do it all the time. Although in general I've stopped buying a lot of stuff on there since it seems like everything now costs 5x as much as it used to, you seem to pay for shipping on everything, and the ability to search for things is way, way down (it's actually better than it used to be, but still terrible compared with 6-7 years ago).
pc866 days ago
I find it hard to believe that all but a very, very narrow segment of society can't go 3 or 4 days without tracking a package?
riskable6 days ago
Geeze! Going to the AliExpress app to check a package is for when you remember that you ordered something over a month ago and are wondering if it'll arrive soon. Not for regular checking!

Then you look and see it made it to your country last week and give a gentle nod to the app, then close it. Because you know, "any day now, I'll have 1000 of that $0.01 thing."

dghlsakjg6 days ago
AliExpress tells you the tracking number and the courier on the order page. I just tracked a package yesterday without touching the app.
parasti6 days ago
> The people who love being connected never let the thing leave them be it pocket, palm, face-down next to the fork

I'm tired of convincingly presented falsehoods. I hate being on my phone. I also can't stop being on my phone.

Muromec6 days ago
Like all addictions it's about habits and you compete with multiple trillion-dollar companies to shape your habits for you. Luckily, you are closer to where decisions are actually being made.

So the measures, in no particular order, but vaguely resemblign an escalation ladder:

1. Get a shittier phone. Something worth 100 eurobucks from aliexpress working on a slow mtk soc, outdated android and all that

2. Disable all notification forever, also incoming call ringtone with a voice mail saying you will return the call tomorrow

3. Get a landline or equivalent land-line like voip phone on a table in a hallway. With a voice mail of course.

4. Start leaving the phone at home when you go for a short walk or somewhere in a shop.

5. When you do take it with you outside, put it in a banana bag under the jacket instead of your pocket and then leave it in the bag when you get back home.

6. obviously remove all of the dopamine junkie apps.

7. don't look at the mail, chats, news, whatever is there before lunch, specifically don't let it be the first thing getting your attention in the morning.

8. doing a prayer 5 times a day and going to mosque or whatever you have to counter balance the influence of shaitain sitting your pocket for the last 10 years.

9. allowing yourself to use junkie apps for a dopamine hit when you actually need it but deciding the time and trigger yourself (separate phone with instagrahm turned off most of the time, only scrolling it while you are outside in the park in a nice setting after having a juicy piece of junk food, icecream or whatever, etc).

lukan6 days ago
"outdated android and all that"

But then don't do anything money related with it or use any important account details.

jwrallie6 days ago
Tried almost all of these, stuck on no. 7. If I have a browser I’ll browse, I have no social media apps at all, I’ll open HN and browse it happily, I even use Reddit on a browser with that atrocious webpage nagging you to install the app. I’ll use it in a PC if my phone breaks.

If I lock myself out of the browser, cut all communications, miss a phone call, I’ll not be able to do “something” that is not socially acceptable not to do. Life will create a situation, and make me feel like I’m doing something wrong, maybe I am.

Then there is all the good things, that article that got you hooked on a new idea, that contact that got you a better job, that friend you miss in another continent. My kid would not exist were not for the internet. When you are in a bad day you will convincingly argue it’s for the greater good, maybe you are even right that it was.

There is porn when you are horny, delivery services when you are tired and hungry, a map when you are lost, hobby items you can’t find locally, podcasts when you are lonely, all the music.

I think I’m not wired in a way that can healthily separate the good and the bad in a society that also can’t. I know something is wrong, but I don’t think I can fix it with tech.

ElevenLathe6 days ago
What is a "banana bag"? I only know it from the medical usage, and don't seem to be able to find anything about the phrase otherwise.
rcMgD2BwE72F6 days ago
Get GrapheneOS. Install FOSS apps whenever possible, via Obtainium. Signal if need be. A RSS reader. No social networks. Get a Kagi subscription to ensure no ads and bias.

Voilà

hn927268195 days ago
I don't think you read it correctly. You are incorrectly assuming the converse

> people who love being connected (implies =>) never leave it

You don't love being connected, so the author isn't claiming anything about you.

nirava6 days ago
when reading personal blogs, it's best to assume any statement as a reflection of their experiences and world-bubble rather than as verified facts. This is a blog, not a technical doc. while your frustration may be well founded, it's also self inflicted to a degree, you're expecting the wrong thing from the wrong place.
cryptopian6 days ago
While we're on the subject of gripes with the modern internet, the fact that most social media sites that publish to a single feed flatten reality into a single format. People then apply uniform judgement to content with wildly different purposes (and subconsciously people ascribe more purpose to posts that happen to rise up the frontpage, even when the blog in question was just some thought somebody threw out in ten minutes)
godshatter6 days ago
My phone is in my pocket all the time basically, along with my keys and my wallet. I use it to respond to text messages from friends and family, read books on the Kindle app, check the weather report, and occasionally check Teams to see why my watch has been vibrating constantly with notifications for the last twenty minutes. Oh, and to talk on the phone once in a blue moon.

I get that I'm an outlier, but I'd worry more about the people that launch it across the room the minute they get home. Of course, if you're always picking it up and checking social media, that's also a problem.

Henchman215 days ago
Toss it in the river. You will never feel quite as free!

But also, dispose of it properly, we don't need polluted rivers full of garbage smart phones.

bm37196 days ago
The author loved technology when it worked for him, now he toils in its service. Previously, it was additive, only giving and not taking; now it narrows options to only one: the app.

Obviously, we shouldn't let this happen. Keep paper tickets, physical menus, cash, etc. These things are human, made by and for humans. They make sense across the intelligence spectrum as they connect to us in the physicality of the real (which everyone understands).

Of course, the individual doesn't get to decide if all his government and city services app-ify themselves. What to do in that case? I guess this guy's chosen the path of minimal leashing: wearing the digital yoke as little as possible. That's just harm minimization though.

Perhaps it'll help someone to say this: It is possible to live without a smartphone. I do it. There's times when you can't use a service. QR codes are meaningless. You might occasionally be bored. I've always found an alternative or workaround to these issues. Yes, that's inconvenient sometimes (usually not though, surprisingly), but is that worse than being a slave to glass slab?

rpdillon6 days ago
> Previously, it was additive, only giving and not taking; now it narrows options to only one: the app

This seems a bit dramatic. The issue is who is making the decisions. People have stopped being intentional about their decision-making, in a variety of ways, and tend to simply go with whatever the company providing the software recommends. This is the thing that we need to change. Using these services and using a smartphone are fine. We need to find a way to do it on our own terms, though.

hansvm5 days ago
For an example from my own life (technically less relevant because if it comes down to it I'm fortunate and stubborn enough to win the lawsuit if that's what it comes down to, but swap me for any of their other million customers and the story still applies), my HSA has unilaterally made owning a sufficiently modern smartphone (<3yrs practically speaking, though it depends a bit on the manufacturer) with all the secure enclave bells and whistles mandatory to access my money I voluntarily placed into their system under a completely set of rules. Customer service has gone nowhere. If I couldn't afford the lawsuit, what options would I have? The employer offering the HSA a decade ago was just trying (and succeeding) to provide a nice benefit. I would've been insane to turn down a bunch of free money from my employer when the only stipulation was that it went through a third party taking a <<1% cut. The fuck-the-customer mentality happened later, and suddenly enough I couldn't do anything about it. If some family caves to their demands to access their own money, I'm not going to be the one to blame them for not being intentional about their decision making.
danny_codes6 days ago
You’re fighting trillions a year in addictive engineering.

The tech industry has spent the last 20 years (and really in earnest the last 15, accelerating over time) making their tech as addictive as possible.

Current tech is egregiously addictive. It’s worse than most drugs.

The big tech companies are now the most successful drug dealers in history.

mark_l_watson6 days ago
I have lived in a tech-rich life since I bought my first single board home system in around 1975.

I think it is as easy as setting boundaries: practice meditation. Learn to enjoy sitting and doing nothing, both in the living room and sitting outside.

Then when the time is right, work hard for several hours to get important stuff done.

Food tastes best when we are very hungry, so we must go long periods of time doing mini-fasting a few times a day in order to enjoy food. Similarly, earning a living or experimenting with tech should be something that you sit down and do for a while, then do something else.

upheaval72766 days ago
if fasting (and spiking your blood glucose with ostensibly bigger meals) is required to enjoy food, then something has gone quite wrong. I assume you're referring to more whole and less processed/sugar-infested food. in that case, maintain a consistent diet of whole foods, eat small meals throughout the day, and your palate will adjust.
conorcleary6 days ago
nah, periodic calorie-restriction without feeling you 'have to' feels alright when you next eat, and, you can consciously choose a healthier snack in the moment to continue the nicer feeling.

Knowing you skipped a pizza and it's still available in the freezer (plus you still don't need to buy another one to replace it, yet) after growing up feeling overweight, eventually being overweight, and feeling the same during both periods - the price is an electricity bill for the freezer, not priceless.

nancyminusone6 days ago
Absolutely audacious to complain about being "forced" to install apps and in the next sentence complain about the Aliexpress app. Nobody forced you to install the aliexpress app. Nobody needs the aliexpress app.

Also people need to hate ads more. A single unwarranted notification will get me to disable all notifications or uninstall your app. If you don't hate ads enough, you'll find yourself being shown ads.

Grombobulous6 days ago
I think the author has good points but maybe we need to separate out a few things.

AliExpress is very much a user choice issue. It’s not a necessary service and it has a wide variety of competitors.

But the Apple OS nags for free trials and services should be something that is illegal under antitrust law. iOS and Android are the only two viable operating systems on the market for cellular phones. They are a duopoly. We shouldn’t be forced through promotions and ads in the basic operating system functionality just to have a basic communication device.

And we can say all we want about feature phones and flip phones and other similar alternatives but that’s bologna. 99.9% of customers are buying iOS or Android. From a numbers perspective there are no other options.

themadturk5 days ago
I'm an Apple OS owner and I'm trying to imagine what these nags for free trials and services are. I have most notifications off, so perhaps I'm missing them? Some apps do this, I guess, but I just can't think of the last time my Mac or iPhone or iPad or Apple Watch nagged me to join a free trial or service.
wrxd6 days ago
Yet services do whatever they can to convince the user to install their apps.

While I agree that the user shouldn't install unnecessary apps and probably remove most of what's installed, this is playing a rigged game. On the one side a person who want to do something, on the other end countless very well founded teams trying to exploit our monkey brains.

fmsdlfnsdflkn6 days ago
> Yet services do whatever they can to convince the user to install their apps.

You don't need the Ali Express app to track your orders, yet the author seems to think so. If you think this is a rigged game then just don't play it.

Use your phone for what you need and let it be the end of it. The author is complaining about things as if someone were putting a gun to their head and forcing them to use the Ali Express to track their orders.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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