86 points•eigenBasis•6 days ago•147 comments•

147 comments

tanhle6 days ago
It's idealistic but I love it. I've been thinking a lot about this.

At my alma mater they forced all of us to take a couple of humanities courses. They were actually the highlight of my senior year. I do believe it's something that's quite lacking in an number/outcome-based education that should actually strive to produce well rounded individuals that will-not-do-evil.

https://catalog.caltech.edu/current/information-for-undergra...

Alas, I went on to write code for a living anyway.

harpersealtako5 days ago
The issue is, I don't think that university humanities courses generally contribute much to a person's moral development, and if they do, it's not always necessarily in a positive way (as anybody who has taken enough university humanities courses can tell you). Interest in the humanities is something that should be cultivated much earlier in life to really have an effect; if your first serious encounter with philosophy is in senior-year philosophy gen ed classes, it's probably not going to do much good, and might actually do harm (e.g. the person who takes psychology 101 and starts over-confidently diagnosing all their friends and family with obscure mental illnesses, the person who takes ethics 101 and decides that 20th century utilitarianism is a perfect system with no downsides, not to even mention the culture war stuff which is the not-so-subtle elephant in the room).

I loved probably 2/3rds of my gen ed courses back during my college years, but this was entirely due to an existing appreciation for the topics (history, literature, physical sciences), and around 1/3rd of them were worse than useless (I cannot remember a single positive lesson I took from them other than a sense of nihilism about the university's faculty hiring standards).

If the goal is moral development, few things will develop a person's morals than actually living and struggling in the real world, and college is NOT the real world. I have some half baked opinions about the degree to which university education produces a lot of adult children with arrested development due to an extended adolescence. If on the other hand, the goal is a classical liberal arts education, which I am quite sympathetic towards (at least in theory), I am skeptical that taking a handful of university humanities courses is the ideal way to accomplish this.

DanielVZ6 days ago
It’s not only about not doing evil. Humanities train your brain in ways hard sciences usually don’t.

But I do agree ethics is a big one.

chris_swart6 days ago
I studied maths & CS but my favourite course at uni was a politics course, so not a real humanity but it opened my eyes.

The course was a seminar on the 20th Century Politics of Japan with ~10 students.

Lots of great questions around the fall of imperial Japan and about what democracy means in Japan for example what would a socialist or communist Japan look like?

It was a wonderful course: great professor and a really fun small group learning and discussions.

mattgoupil6 days ago
I agree with the author. Working with AI code generators, you see the need to be able to dig deep and dig out the unsaid in an argument. You need to appreciate and have a feel for language's ambiguities to make sure the right thing is done.

Also, aesthetics is an underrated part of writing good code, and that requires a broad exposure to human creation.

0xDEAFBEAD6 days ago
I've seen about 100x more content like "tech needs humanities" than I've seen like "here's a brilliant humanities insight which can be applied to tech". Seems suspicious.
bluGill6 days ago
For the tech portion of your jobs, humanities is mostly useless. However, the tech portion of your job is only a small minority of what you will be doing. You will be spending a lot of time working with other people, explaining why your vision is better, understanding why they think their vision is better, and then trying to figure out, which set of compromises is best.

And that just assumes that you remain in a tech career. Many people move their career over life. There is a lot of needed management and if you can do all of that there's a decent paycheck in it and some of you will prefer that. There are a number of other jobs that are not directly management, but are not tech-focused either and need to be managed.

And that's just your career. There's the rest of your life. Well, I certainly hope you're not working your entire life to death, but you find things outside of work to do.

bigbadfeline5 days ago
> For the tech portion of your jobs, humanities is mostly useless.

I don't think anyone argued differently, the actual question is, are humanities good for anything at their current state of development?

> You will be spending a lot of time working with other people, [on, and on, and on, how there's a world outside of technology]

That doesn't automatically qualify these humanities as some sort of aid. Looking at the social developments in the last few decades, things appear to be going downhill and accelerating. Humanities seem to be contributing to that trend, or at least completely unable to reverse or slow it down.

EPWN3D6 days ago
Moreover, I've never seen the reverse. No one gets clicks by talking about the benefits that humanities majors. plus reap if they cared to understand technology.

If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. But the reality is that credit hours are expensive, and everything unrelated to your concentration is just a pile of extra debt you can never discharge.

Is humanities helpful for technology majors? Sure, I'd buy it. Is it worth the money? Probably not. Personally, I think CS majors should study law, if anything. But you can't do that at an introductory level (e.g. there is no Contract Law 101 for general education curricula), which is a real shame.

redwood5 days ago
If your university were free would you think about it differently? I ask because some argue time is money so it's still not free however one of the great things about the study of humanities is to fill your life with meaning which changes what time is too. If you've not read or heard this commencement address from David Foster Wallace highly recommended https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/
lapcat6 days ago
If you think an education can be reduced to simply-stated aphorisms you can follow, you're missing the point. If that's all there was, you wouldn't need to spend years in school.

It's like thinking you can become a tennis player by watching a single instructional video. There's no substitute for doing the work. The result is the skilled person.

It's interesting that you seemingly want to erase the humans from the humanities in order to distill the "insights".

ChickeNES6 days ago
I thought the humanities were supposed to train you to better express and share ideas? Seems like a major failure if they can't communicate to those outside their field.
lostmsu6 days ago
> you wouldn't need to spend years in school

Do you?

catchnear43216 days ago
would you rather be provided the solution, or work on it collaboratively?

only one of these really considers the humanities aspect.

put more bluntly, recognizing the problem does not equate to having the solution. but it’s a fun problem to work on.

crabbone6 days ago
> the only way forward is down to the roots of human thought and theory

I see this as both too vague and not really being in the right direction. AI today can't do a good historical review / not enough ability to analyze? -- It's not implausible that it will get there some day. AI, in principle, can't have a value judgement though. It needs external "oracle" to tell good from bad, right from wrong, useful from useless.

But, it would be too naive to think that humans always know answers to these questions either. It's on humans to understand, perhaps with the help from AI, what's good and what's bad, and then instruct AI accordingly.

moolcool6 days ago
People often complain about the humanities requirements for CS degrees, and now the world is run by tech executives who don’t have a clue.
sseagull6 days ago
I’ve been thinking lately how lots of tech people dunk on humanities and liberal arts, only to come to forums like this and discuss ethics, reality, and the nature of consciousness (at quite a shallow level)

“Engineer’s disease” and all that.

ChickeNES6 days ago
I don't have much against the humanities, but my social science sequence in college only taught me how bad psychology was as a field (being taught in biology how to read and weigh journal articles while simultaneously being assigned psych articles with tiny samples and dubious methodology...was amusing, to say the least).
n4r96 days ago
Reminds me of how Stephen Hawking says "philosophy is dead" whilst simultaneously engaging in philosophy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-dependent_realism
TeMPOraL6 days ago
Alternative hypothesis: these people have a better framework to discuss "ethics, reality and the nature of consciousness" than people who do humanities have.

That explains the Hawking example in this thread, too.

Proposed causal explanation from me: STEM interest and education gives you skill and tools for principled, consistent reasoning, expressing nontrivial concepts (that's what mathematics is largely about), as well as appreciation and deeper understanding for how things in our actual, physical universe work, from biology and physics to computation. Conversely, humanist base with no STEM experience collapses to rhetoric, completely detached from actual reality.

ViscountPenguin6 days ago
I've yet to see any strong evidence that powerful people with humanities degrees do anything useful either.
pyrale6 days ago
> and now the world is run by tech executives who don’t have a clue.

They do have a clue, what's missing is any sort of belief in the value of ethics.

landdate6 days ago
Ethics are irrelevant. They lack a believe in God and without God nothing but evil and chaos may exist.
landdate6 days ago
I don't think a humanities class is gonna change that.
ChickeNES6 days ago
I'd have to imagine a fairly large majority of US executives attended colleges that required humanities classes, right?
lapcat6 days ago
Peter Thiel studied philosophy. That didn't help.

What they're missing is ethics, not education.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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