The best platform for cycle-accurate retro PC emulation may just be the Mac. The M6 achieved a stable 600MHz clock using a 6.0 derived 86Box build.

284 points•hugh4life•6 days ago•121 comments•

121 comments

cloverich5 days ago
Brings back memories; so much nostalgia. I still remember clearly the first real graphics card (I think it was voodoo) I got and when I fired up TFC (which I'd played sans graphics card up to then), just staring at the water for a bit and being amazed by it. The funny thing too is when 3d graphics were first taking over, the games themselves didn't look as nice as the former 2d ones; I remember being a little confused at first that everything looked worse. But of course it enabled all kinds of new and more immersive experiences. It was funny to experience... how it felt. To look both crappy and amazing at the same time; to be its own "thing" really.

I also enjoyed introducing people to it, and watching them look at it the first time. You could tell who would get hooked. Some people would play the game a minute or two and be like wow yeah this is pretty neat, and then go about their life. Others would kind of just stop and almost watch themselves, and almost invariably just start laughing. It was so pleasing to watch it melt people's minds the way it had mine.

Anyways, a special time. Really fun seeing these projects.

detritus5 days ago
'everything looked worse', I entirely know what you mean, coming from a tight, high fidelity Amiga background, but now all these years later it all looks so logical.

It was Comanche on my Dad's shitty office pc that allowed me to appreciate big pixel 'shit' graphics.

some-guy5 days ago
I played the Half Life Uplink demo on a Pentium II 450Mhz Gateway (with no 3D acceleration) and remember seeing Half-Life for the first time on the Voodoo 3 after it, thinking it looked "worse". There was something about the colors of the software rendering that were different and felt "warmer". That being said, the framerate of the Voodoo 3 did blow me away.
rufo5 days ago
Voodoo 1-3 couldn’t render 32-bit color, so maybe you were noticing the lower bit depth?

3dfx did design some tricks into the video pipeline on Voodoo 2 and 3 cards that allowed for what they called 22-but color, and it definitely looked better than other 3D accelerator cards’ 16-bit modes - but it was still not as clean looking as true 32-bit color. (Interestingly, the filtering they did was applied after the framebuffer, so screen captures would only ever show the lower quality original.)

pipes5 days ago
I desperately wanted a voodoo card (I was late to the pc party). I'd been playing lots of Goldeneye on the n64 and the gaming press had me convinced that real FPS shooters were on the pc not consoles. What a load of shite, I bought a voodoo 3 for my dad's pc, got quake 2 and was bitterly disappointed. Gameplay wise it was so limited compared to Goldeneye. The world was no were near as interactive. Recently I've seen gabe Newell talking about half life and the crowd bar hitting walls was their way of showing the player real world feedback. He's right, but that's nothing compared to the bullet holes in Goldeneye. To be fair, quake 3, unreal tournament 99 and Deus ex alone justified the voodoo card purchase, but it still felt like a let down.
rafaelm5 days ago
Yessss...I got a friend who went on vacation to the US to bring back a Voodoo (2,I think?). I played a lot of Quake 1 and I remember playing online and seeing the water transparency and my rivals underwater...good times.
pak9rabid5 days ago
> The funny thing too is when 3d graphics were first taking over, the games themselves didn't look as nice as the former 2d ones

Duke3D -> Quake (software rendered of course) definitely fit that description

miffe5 days ago
They where released just 6 months apart [0], [1]. I'll take the "lower" quality quake 3D models over Duke 3Ds 2D sprites any day :)

[0]: https://www.mobygames.com/game/365/duke-nukem-3d/ [1]: https://www.mobygames.com/game/374/quake/

iamtedd5 days ago
WTF is TFC?
9x395 days ago
Probably Team Fortress Classic. Hi to all nade and rocket jumping fans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Fortress_Classic

cbm-vic-206 days ago
I had a fair amount of shares of TDFX back in the day, rode it all the way to their bankruptcy. NVDA bought the scraps and left retail shareholders like me with nothing. In a different reality, if 3dfx could have survived to the AI-era...
saturn86015 days ago
Really nice background in the recent book The Nvidia Way. The gist of it was Jensen recognized that having the best chip once wasn’t enough.

The result: Nvidia organized around delivering something new every six months. This meant a new architecture followed by two improved derivatives over an approx 18 month period. That turned 3dfx’s development schedule into a trap.

Conclusion: disciplined execution above all else.

Its interesting how even I didn't realize how competitive he was...until after the market realized recently. Wish these books would come out a year earlier than they did. :/

I guess i'm not cut out for stock trading. I'm always arriving as the train is departing both in real life and on the market.

bityard5 days ago
> I guess i'm not cut out for stock trading.

As it turns out, neither is anyone else, even people who do it for a living. (If we constrain the definition of "stock trading" to mean researching and picking individual stocks.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Random_Walk_Down_Wall_Street

kristianp5 days ago
> Nvidia organized around delivering something new every six months

That explains the SUPERs that were released seemingly very quickly after the original models. Looks like the 5 series will miss out on that due to the ram shortages and prioritising their HBM server models.

afavour6 days ago
I still remember playing Quake 2 to death in software then finally getting a 3dfx card (I want to say it was a Banshee?), loading up the game and my mind being blown by how much more immersive it was.

Great times, the 3dfx name will always raise a smile for me.

nazgulsenpai5 days ago
Core memory unlocked. I remember being in my dark bedroom with he glow of the CRT playing Quake 2 grapple CTF for hours and hours. Eventually I got a Voodoo 3 in all it's 16-bit color glory.

It's wild how hazy those memories are becoming. Getting old is weird.

jonplackett6 days ago
I wanted a 3DFX card so bad when I was 10yo.

And then I wanted a GeForce so bad. But I only got £10 a week from my paper round.

If I’d invested just one week of my paper round in Nvidia shares though, it would be worth over £10 million today.

Aurornis5 days ago
When I was a kid I told my parents I wanted to invest some of my money in NVDA after we had a school assignment to study a company. They laughed and gave me a speech about stock picking. What they said was actually good advice, but looking back it would have been a home run.

At the time stock trades were still expensive. I remember one of the obstacles was thinking that of the small amount of birthday money I had saved up, $20 was going to go into the purchase and another $20 would have to come out of the sale. Then they explained taxes to me.

None of it would have mattered if I had been able to buy and hold, but at the time I remember being sad that even doubling my money would result in $40 of fees plus taxes, eating most of the gains.

supermatt6 days ago
More like 2 years of your £10 a week paper round for that £10m return.
reenorap5 days ago
Me too. I lost all my money at the time betting on TDFX. I was salty as fuck against Nvidia for decades until I had no choice but to buy their GPU 10-ish years ago. Now I’m a stockholder. I only wish I chose properly 25 years ago…
Sohcahtoa825 days ago
> In a different reality, if 3dfx could have survived to the AI-era...

...they would still have fumbled it.

3dfx failed for a single reason: Failure to design for the future.

They had a hyperfocus on brute force rasterization and fill rate that became detrimental. They dropped the ball on 32-bit rendering because they thought having a higher fill rate was more important. They dropped the ball on implementing hardware transform because they considered that the CPU's job.

And then they blew up their own business model buying STB Systems and manufacture cards themselves, rather than selling chips to other manufacturers. That ended up being a gift to NVIDIA who adopted the opposite strategy of providing chips, reference designs, drivers, etc. and let a large number of board manufacturers compete to sell them.

And then there's the fact that NVIDIA was allowing themselves to create new architectures, while 3dfx was basically just saying "Let's make the same GPU, but with more texture units". By the time the Voodoo5 came out, NVIDIA was already on the GeForce 2.

3dfx lost because it kept optimizing for yesterday. NVIDIA understood where the industry was going and 3dfx didn't, and there's little reason to think AI would have gone any differently. If 3dfx had somehow survived another 20 years, I'd expect them to arrive at the AI boom with the world's fastest rasterizer.

kar11816 days ago
86box is really fun, and the m4+ macs are great at running it. I've been working on a custom OS designed specifically for the pentium 2 core/isa (trying to write an high performance *nix for 1997-1999 for quake 1/2). 86box runs very faithfully to the real silicon p2s (and voodoo 3) I have without the nuisance of having to copy code over to it in development.
mrngld6 days ago
Corrected title: My Childhood Emulated on 86Box with M6 Mac Mini
acidburnNSA6 days ago
I've been maintaining an emulated Pentium Pro 200 MHz Windows 95 machine on 86Box for some time with all my favorite old software from childhood. It's great for nostalgia, and if friends come over they have fun showing their kids things like SkiFree, Jezzball, and Encarta 96. Still holds up great for kids.
mrngld6 days ago
Yep, I showed my little ones Odell Down Under in the browser at one point, they loved it. A certain amount of that old software I copied to .iso from my physical CD's, but not sure where I could grab something like Encarta 96. Legally.

Had also been thinking about asking Codex to boil the oceans in an attempt to fully decompile or reverse engineer that OG of 1990s 4X games, 'Stars!'*, which I have a copy of, so I could have something modern and native for MacOS that kept all the mechanics. Maybe I should just do this instead, will have to investigate.

mikepurvis5 days ago
Cinemania 97 was a big part of this era for me too, though it was far less widespread than Encarta. Fantastic resource for classic film, and into the 80s and 90s, though it was bit quirky watching it get further and further out of date, like the big 1999 films that defined my youth (The Matrix, American Beauty, Fight Club, etc) all completely unknown to it of course.
mysterydip6 days ago
I think part of the reason it holds up still is things had to be designed for newcomers at the time, since people largely were.
bknight19836 days ago
You had me at Winamp
walrus016 days ago
Emulated llama whipping, what an era we live in

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