A Sydney tutoring company will shut its doors at the end of the week after telling customers artificial intelligence has rendered its service effectively obsolete.

142 points•theanonymousone•7 days ago•231 comments•

231 comments

ivansavz7 days ago
Non-paywall link: https://archive.is/W15Hg
radiorental7 days ago
This isn't binary, teachers have limited bandwidth and supplementing real teaching with AI supported research can work.

Students need to understand what AI is and is not.

Something got lost as we transitioned from parents telling their kids to 'go play and do not come back until dinner is ready' to us handholding & driving our kids from one social/sport activity to the next.

While it causes fights with my kids, I blank refuse to do certain things for them (fix their internet connection, repair a toy or bike) I'll give them the tools and they know to ask when they get stuck.

The act of learning through failure is a dying art these days. It's 'teach to the test', stressed out teachers, parents having too much to do compounded by taking on second, third jobs in this economy.

Teaching our kids how to leverage AI is something parents should invest in. Its part of a broader education landscape.

yardie7 days ago
As a parent I agree with you, but watching other kids get a leg up because their parents continue to jump in and save them. And your own get the double harsh reality of learning failure and then being punished for it through loss of placement and status. It's tragedy of the commons since everyone must pass no one can fail.

> Teaching our kids how to leverage AI is something parents should invest in. Its part of a broader education landscape.

The same was said for laptops and tablets. Now there is a push to remove them from the curriculum. Having them meant the students didn't retain anything because they were distracting. I feel using AI in place of pedagogy will have similar results. Why bother learning to retain any information when AI knows everything and can recall it in a split second.

singpolyma36 days ago
> Why bother learning to retain any information when AI knows everything and can recall it in a split second.

This is a real question though. One I've been asking since the early 00s. Learning means something different than it did in decades previous. Merely remembering easy to look up facts is not the slam dunk it used to be.

asdff6 days ago
It might look like those kids are having a leg up, but really they aren't learning to stand on their two feet and the wheels start coming off when they aren't under the wing anymore.
phyzix57616 days ago
If parents are stepping in and constantly saving their kids they are not giving them a leg up. They are effectively handicapping them.
frizlab6 days ago
> I feel using AI in place of pedagogy will have similar results.

I think it will actually be much, much worse.

BeetleB6 days ago
I assume they weren't advocating for using AI to just blindly give answers to the students...

You can argue the same about humans. Growing up, I definitely did encounter people who charged money for tutoring and never taught anything - they just gave the answers. Wasted money.

As for dealing with kids whose classmates' parents help them a bit too much... I honestly don't have a solution. From my experience growing up, beyond a certain amount of help, you definitely are hampering the kid if you overhelp them. I guess I was just fortunate that none of my peers' parents cared to, so I could still be near the top of the class.

Oh, and our final scores were heavily weighted on in-class tests/exams, so even if some kid's parents did overhelp, they wouldn't do well overall.

piltdownman7 days ago
You're basically describing the established pedagogical field of Problem Based Learning, which is around as long as personal computing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem-based_learning

In PBL the teacher adopts a constructivist approach - supporting, guiding, and monitoring the learning process as opposed to delivering a defined curriculum via lectures or seminars.

Agentic AI is arguably a better fit for this as it can scale infinitely to monitor student progress, offer timely feedback on design choices, and adjust difficulty dynamically based on how the student interacts with the problem.

Your main contention is one I'd broadly agree with - that use of Agentic AI for tutoring abdicates intellectual agency, allowing the AI to perform the critical synthesis and analysis that the student should be doing themselves for learning to occur.

The solution, however, is clear: guardrail the AI to promote core pedagogical principles rather than replace learner cognition by mandating things like instructional friction and the strategic fading of AI support as students build competence.

As explored in the paper I link below, by balancing proactive scaffolding with necessary and beneficial cognitive challenges, AI can preserve the productive struggle essential to effective learning.

https://arxiv.org/html/2606.04543v1

(A final thought: have a look at the current field of companies who specialise in turning training materials into engaging interactive experiences for the likes of Compliance and Security training. This is a corporate field now being automated and democratised for use by the average student in Academic pursuits in an on-demand fashion. Appropriate AI tutoring is basically the same concept.)

sandeepkd6 days ago
AI has its own benefits but its really a bad idea to use it in education as a primary source. LLMs have lots of information, reasoning ability, however they have their own limitations and by the nature these limitations just amplify.

Few days ago my son was working on a problem which asked if square is a rectangle. Turns out his class teacher and external tutor (who was using AI) had different opinions on it. My wife consulted AI as well and she also came to the conclusion that square is not a rectangle cause AI told her so, AI told the same answer to external tutor. I understand that the context matters and if one probes AI more with additional context it may come up with correct answer, but this depends on the assumption that the person asking AI for something already knows the answer.

hahajk6 days ago
This is not a problem with AI, this is a problem with a human accepting an answer without understanding why it is correct. The tutor could also read a book that states "A square is not a rectangle" (or vice versa) and repeating it back to the student as established fact.
opt_dot_step6 days ago
I am very curious what either person asked that led them to say that AI had told them a square is not a rectangle.

The obvious question of “is a square a rectangle?” is definitely NOT causing any LLM to say “no”.

Hallucinations are an issue but they genuinely are no longer a concern for any modern non-tiny LLM for basic facts that you would expect a K-6 course to cover. Maybe you might be able to find a few random hallucinations in knowledge covered at the high school level but I’m quite skeptical even that still happens. Yes, they can still, at times, hallucinate sources but I cannot recall the last time I actually saw this happen. I think it was at least a year ago

maest6 days ago
In what world is a square not a rectangle?

I don't understand how your wife interrogated the AI to be told a square is not a rectangle.

And how can two tutors disagree on this?

aoki6 days ago
When shape names are first introduced, many kids will flip out if you suggest a given polygon can be multiple things at once. So they define the shapes (square, rectangle, rhombus, parallelogram, trapezoid, etc.) so they are mutually exclusive, with categories like quadrilateral as residual categories. You can tell who is doing AoPS/Beast Academy because they argue based on the standard definitions, whereas the teacher will insist on the curricular definition or on the “most specific answer.”

Another classic is “how many roots does a parabola with real coefficients have?” The answer is always two by the FTA, but the textbook Algebra 1 answer is zero, one, or two because they haven’t covered complex numbers yet.

OutOfHere6 days ago
Let me say this in a different way: If some rectangles can also be squares, then this shows that a square is a rectangle. This is not a logical deduction; it is an intuitive one.
1137 days ago
> teachers have limited bandwidth

Hire more?

burnedbyhell5 days ago
The better alternative is to reshuffle what teaching means.

Right now teacher largely execute a curriculum this is predefined and do behavior management in US public schools at least. There is not a whole lot of creativity and a lot of rigid administration.

Given that teacher salaries are one of the biggest expenditures it makes sense to try to gain efficiencies while trying to improve results.

Under the current scheme, the results are headed downhill. More of the same won't solve any problems.

unified1016 days ago
For how much money? Subscribing people is 200 dollars a day. Codexr is 20 dollars a month
mapcars6 days ago
>Students need to understand what AI is and is not.

Do we really understand what AI is and is not? For example we all know AI can hallucinate, but how does that knowledge help us in practice? If I'm leaning something new I would have to fact check everything which would take about as much time as learning from verified sources.

sandworm1016 days ago
I just watched a youtube about cruise ships. A near-riot broke out during a movie quote quiz because the AI that made the questions confused Casablanca and Gone With The Wind. If it aint ready for quiz night, it aint ready to teach kids.
upupupandaway7 days ago
A friend of mine put his kid into a school called Alpha [1]. It has no teachers, only guides (?), who are well paid grads but not formally teachers. Kids go in in the morning, do two hours of computer study with an AI program, and the guide only steps in if the kid has a question or doubt the system cannot answer.

Then there's recess and afternoon is all taken up with "Life Skills" classes such as entrepreneurship and the likes.

Kids are tested weekly and progress through grades at will. For example, his kid would officially be in 3rd grade, but she's doing 3rd reading, 5th grade math, and 4th grade writing. She can easily test 3rd grade topics now.

I am ambiguous about this model. Love the "learn as much as you want" even if it means learning 2, 3 grades ahead, but the no-teacher rule and so much computer use seems a little strange. Also if the kid is not extremely self-motivated, they will be left by the side of the road by the school.

[1] - https://alpha.school/

Edit: It's 40k a year.

tastyfreeze6 days ago
I have found for many young kids lack of studiousness is not that they are not self-motivated. It is that whatever is being taught is worse than boring to them. The lack of motivation in schools comes from a lack of interest or too slow of pacing.

By the time they get out of primary school most have had the curiosity that drives motivation beat out of them.

atoav6 days ago
Yet, when I go through the skills and knowledge acquired during my school education there are many bits in there that I am now eternally grateful for, that I did not understand the need for as a kid.

I am not sure where I would have ended up if left to my own devices, e.g. as a kid starting first class I was bad at languages and hated it with a passion, in the last class I had the single best German and English final exams in my school district and language had grown on me.

adbachman7 days ago
Alpha shows the results they do because they charge exorbitant rates (up to $75,000 / year depending on region) to staff the school with multiple individualized tutors per student.

It is a for-profit product which is sold to parents and state-level customers more than it is a school.

upupupandaway6 days ago
1. I have 0 problem with the "for-profit" product if the kids are well-educated. 2. I would challenge the "multiple individualized tutors" claim, as a parent with a kid actually studying there says there is no tutoring, only answering questions on the content or the software being used.
nitwit0056 days ago
I'd have just sat there for hours trying to trick ChatGPT into giving bomb making advice, and then disrupted the others by sharing.

There have been many variations on this idea of "letting kids learn on their own". The basic issue is the one you highlight, which is that it works if the student is very self motivated. Most students aren't. Or rather, they're highly motivated to do other things.

wongarsu6 days ago
Most children are naturally curios. The challenge is to make them curios about the things you want them to learn, and make that more interesting than finding out how to make bombs or what the consequences of sharing that with the class will be
zhivota6 days ago
Alpha doesn't use a chatbot, it's still a multiple choice / text input into a box type of thing, I don't even think it's AI graded, though the questions may be AI generated, I'm not sure about that.

In the early days they were using off the shelf curriculum software and layering their own steering AI over it.

iambateman6 days ago
A good friend of mine works for them. It’s a weird combination of (1) probably the long-range future and (2) absolutely not going to use my kid as a test subject.

If you believe, as I do, that half of students only achieve half of their academic potential, then experiments like this are some of the most valuable work we could do in society.

But again, let me know how it goes in 25 years and my children can enroll my grandkids.

piltdownman6 days ago
In terms of 3rd level accession and standardised testing I'd imagine they boast great statistics, and that the students are self-evident in communicating a degree of confidence and holistic education beyond their traditionally educated peers.

However, I would fear that the issue with home-schooling would manifest: that the rarified atmosphere would render them incapable of engaging or coping with the brutal reality of binary-minded Authority figures and hierarchical social constructs in their work and life in the 'real world'.

To writ, some of the most important lessons I learnt in school were to do with the concept of 'fairness', my own ability for emotional regulation, navigation of social hierarchies, and the symbols and signifiers of popular culture. The curriculum as a whole came a distant second.

N.B. Public (read:Private) schools in the UK are about £30k a year. Boarding schools hit about 50k in the UK/Ireland. 'New Age' or International schools for the children of diplomats and HNW ex-pats like Nord Anglia or similar go from about €/£20k upwards. 40k a year isn't outrageous in context, even outside of America.

BeetleB6 days ago
> However, I would fear that the issue with home-schooling would manifest: that the rarified atmosphere would render them incapable of engaging or coping with the brutal reality of binary-minded Authority figures and hierarchical social constructs in their work and life in the 'real world'.

This keeps coming up every time, and it's always pointed out that there is scant evidence supporting this view at a large scale.

Every motivated parent I know who homeschooled his kid didn't deal with these problems.

And plenty of those who went to a traditional school did. They aren't even outliers. I'm sure anyone who went to a regular school can think of kids in their class who exhibited the problems you mentioned.

No doubt, plenty of homeschooled kids do as well. Just as you have a distribution for regular schooled kids, you'll get a distribution for homeschooled kids. Claims that the distributions for the latter are skewed in the "wrong" direction are never presented with evidence.

> To writ, some of the most important lessons I learnt in school were to do with the concept of 'fairness', my own ability for emotional regulation, navigation of social hierarchies, and the symbols and signifiers of popular culture. The curriculum as a whole came a distant second.

I went to a regular school, and none of what you say applied to me. The curriculum/instruction came first, and learned little of the former. I'm sure I'll find classmates who'll say the opposite. This sounds like a classic case of post-hoc attributions.

piloto_ciego6 days ago
Then I think you probably learned the wrong lessons.

The lesson you should have learned would be that we should tear down the "brutal reality of binary-minded Authority figures and hierarchical social constructs." We only tolerate these things as "normal" because people go through their lives not actively trying to tear them down and break them.

csa6 days ago
> However, I would fear that the issue with home-schooling would manifest: that the rarified atmosphere would render them incapable of engaging or coping with the brutal reality of binary-minded Authority figures and hierarchical social constructs in their work and life in the 'real world'.

Having been to a school like that, I agree with you. I had to learn those lessons quickly.

I largely opted out of being in the middle of that world, but I am still adjacent to it due to its ubiquitousness.

saadn927 days ago
I'm all for saving money where you can, but these models really aren't great for learning because they love giving you answers and it's so easy to get an answer, but the process to get to the answer is how you actually learn. Unless you put guardrails in place to actually learn, I don't think this advice is good.
Aurornis7 days ago
I’ve found LLMs to be very good at teaching. Better than I expected.

You have to tell it what you want out of the session. A kid could just type in the question and get the answer, but that’s not tutoring.

When I use them for learning I tell it my goal, summarize my current status, and then tell it to teach me incrementally with a quiz after each step. You can get fancy and have it reach back into history to throw in extra refresher questions.

It uses very few tokens compared to a coding session so you can use the highest model for this and the usage is negligible. Using the top model available to you is important to keep things accurate. I wouldn’t have trusted this back in the GPT 4 or Sonnet days, but with Opus, Astra, or Fable it’s great.

For longer sessions set up a directory and have it keep notes about your progress, problem points, and what was covered in the past.

saadn926 days ago
This is what I meant about using them in the right way. You can totally setup guardrails but my experience has been that unless a person has good self-control, it's way too easy to just get an answer from it. You have to really be interested in learning to do this, though. Thanks for sharing!
spwa46 days ago
You can make shells around the AI experience that make sure this happens, and you'll have to provide some form of oversight.
dumberquestions7 days ago
Students have always had the curriculum and standard study material, it was always possible to study alone, but the teacher mostly provides an interactive gap-bridging layer, and the classroom setting provides some level of obligation, I could be wrong but I don't know why AI can't fulfill the interaction layer part.
piltdownman7 days ago
Sunk-cost, social pressure and obligation are probably the most salient points for educational success in a classroom setting with a teacher of median-skill versus an AI trained on the same corpus.

The sad reality is that many of the most senior professors and lecturers in top universities are their for their research rather than teaching ability, and that the success of the elite institutions is somewhat self-selecting as regards their cachet and filtering done by their admissions process (i.e. Ivy League institutions do not offer athletic scholarships).

dofm6 days ago
This is such a terrible implied indictment of the schools you attended that I feel sad for you.
jgbuddy7 days ago
disagree- i used it for the last few years of coursework preparing for exams. If you give it context (i'm studying for an exam, do not give hints unless asked, your objective is to help my understanding) it is incredibly helpful. This isn't advice, it's a company going out of business.
wat100007 days ago
Depends heavily on the tutee. If it’s someone highly motivated looking for some guidance like you, I could see it working really well. If it’s a kid who would rather be scrolling through Instagram and needs an authority figure to keep them on track, it’s not going to work.
LollipopYakuza7 days ago
I have recently realised that people actually don't know how to prompt. They use AI "raw" and don't understand how the question can have a drastic impact on the result, let alone using skills or system prompts.

Learning new topics or skills is a very good example, I had the same experience as you with Claude when I learned a new language.

zffr6 days ago
It really depends on how you are using AI. If you simply use it to get the answers to homework you won't really learn. If you use it to figure out the topics you need to learn, and to identify/close gaps in your understanding then it is a very useful tool for learning.
xhkkffbf7 days ago
I agree with you and not the OP.

I find it very easy to engage in a Socratic dialog with the AI. If I ask it, it will actually quiz me and carry on a tutoring session. And it doesn't mind if I ask dumb questions.

fma6 days ago
That's great but you're not an 8 year old.
111010100100017 days ago
As a teacher, this is obvious. But when you ask a student 'do you want to learn?' they don't actually understand the question.
tomjen37 days ago
The ChatGPT web app, though apparently not the desktop app, does have a study mode where it will not give you the answer but will help you reason through the problem like the world's most knowledgeable, most attentive teacher.
saadn926 days ago
that's cool, I didn't know about that and that seems like the right direction if a student uses LLMs for learning
glitchc7 days ago
A calculator, Youtube and iPad tried to replace teachers. They all failed but this time it's different.
hinkley6 days ago
One thing that I've noticed as I've gotten older is that the introduction of calculus has slowly moved to younger and younger students. I suspect the tools are partly responsible for this. Less time on basic math and algebra.

When I first started calculus, I was furious at being taught Newtonian Physics and some bits of chemistry without calculus. It's a stupid bunch of equations you have to learn, which Newton worked out from calculus. I'm glad people are getting it more often together now, but also just a bit jealous at the same time.

piltdownman7 days ago
A calculator is a tool that replaced the slide-rule or Abacus - no one contended the Abacus replaced teaching or teachers. Ditto an iPad which is effectively just a fancy calculator in this context.

Similarly Youtube didn't replace teachers - it afforded remote learning and correspondence courses a new medium for transmission, recording, and playback of teaching.

More to the point none of those were trained on a corpus containing the history of human pedagogy, were capable of inference, or of generating dynamic learning resources based on best-practice models with inherent self-correction and pedagogical reinforcement mechanisms.

analog317 days ago
This time around, AI being able to do student homework means that AI is replacing students not teachers.
layman516 days ago
This line of reasoning makes sense, but also I would say that a lot of technologists who are interested in education realize that they have to design something that wouldn't just give the answers away because that's not the point of learning. That seems like it can be pretty difficult to accomplish with LLMs because I bet if a student keeps pestering them, they will give up the answer or give a clue that makes the problem way too obvious.

So usually the claims about replacing tutors like in this article come from a place where they usually give a caveat that maybe for highly motivated and ambitious students, they can figure out how to accelerate their learning with AI. But then that undermines the whole argument of transforming education if it wouldn't work with students who are average or below-average in their academic achievement.

__rito__6 days ago
> Youtube

Not really. I learned far more from YouTube in subjects and topics that I was deeply interested in. School or college teachers didn't go that deep.

Whether it's pc or not, there are there are bad teachers. I skipped those classes in college and learned from MIT OCW and random tutorials.

So, YT did replace some teachers for me, and it continues to do so for many people.

mitxela6 days ago
I didn't. People who think they're learning from YouTube are mostly not learning, just thinking they did. I watched someone design a common-base amplifier. Can I design a common-base amplifier now? No, I can't. I now have a slight awareness of what one does, but I couldn't design it.
maxlin6 days ago
You can't ask any of those direct questions in natural language. They are either rigid or uninteractive

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