The lab-grown-meat revolution that wasn’t

75 points•Hooke•7 days ago•166 comments•

166 comments

swiftcoder7 days ago
> Then, suddenly, the nausea hit... The problem was not the flavor, not the texture, but the knowing. The Knowing. Knowing about the fat tank, about the sticky white substance...

I feel like squeamish people are probably not the best ones to write about novel meat products...

orwin7 days ago
I'm pretty sure it's just the taste of meat that the author didn't like. My half-sister don't eat most meat for taste reasons, and the nausea after tasting beef the author describe sound exactly like her reactions.
wahern6 days ago
I once ate a dog meat stew in South Korea. It was tasty, not very different from any other red meat like beef, lamb, or horse, though the spiciness of the stew may have muted any unfamiliar tastes. However, I had to psyche myself up to eat it, and once I was full and my cultural taboos came flooding back I did start to get queasy. There's a significant mental component to what we find appetizing. Most people aren't that far removed from the stereotypical picky eater, myself included, despite having eaten balut, live shrimp, and many other "exotic" foods.
NuclearPM5 days ago
Doesn’t
FranzFerdiNaN7 days ago
So a tank is problematic, but a slaughter house is fine?
vlan07 days ago
Nah, these are the same folks that have never watched earthlings.

If we made it so before one could eat meat of the animal, it had to personally kill and watch the animal die, we’d eat less meat.

It should be a requirement

boxed7 days ago
Yea.. like.. look into the sheeps eyes as you cut it's throat and then tell me again how a lab is "icky".
emaro7 days ago
I guess it depens on the preson. The author claims they haven't eaten meat since 2007.
OroPla7 days ago
Honestly speaking, yes.

I've seen plenty of videos from slaughter houses, mostly ones activists use to point at the cruelty going on inside, but it never made me feel uncomfortable.

deterministic6 days ago
Have you ever seen a combine harvester kill animals sheltering in a crop during harvest, or considered how many animals are killed by the pesticides used in crop production?
ForHackernews7 days ago
Need to make these people visit a slaughterhouse.
CalRobert7 days ago
Me, having recently moved to rural Ireland: “the cows were mooing and wailing horribly last night, were they being slaughtered?”

Farmer Neighbor (not the one with the cows): “oh, no that’s just when they take the calves away for veal”

As a parent I feel worse about dairy than beef…

blaze337 days ago
"Our Daily Bread" is a very interesting documentary on modern industrial agriculture, just shows what happens, no commentaries whatsoever.

The last part shows the slaughterhouse process (at least live cow to half beef carcass anyway), fair warning you can't unsee that but imo more people could benefit from knowing how their burgers are made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbkKITF_7SE&t=5196s

gus_massa7 days ago
From the "Dirty Jobs" TV serie: "Custom Meat Processor" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1788060/ that includes some self censorship to be able to show it in TV.

Disclaimer: I'm not a vegetarian, but I dislike wasting meat. Something like "eat what you kill" but with in the supermarket in the middle.

thrance7 days ago
And it's so stupid honestly. Why is this making them queasy, but not the slaughterhouses, the industrial farms, the cattle pumped with antibiotics to prevent infections from the open wounds inflicted by their terrible environment, etc. I'd take cells grown in a vat over dead animals everyday.

This is such a stupid line, it makes me wonder if this article just wasn't paid for by a meat industry lobby. Meat industry who we know for a fact is already putting a lot of energy into fighting alternatives, like impossible meat.

atwrk7 days ago
Because, as the arcticle states, the author comes from the position of whether to eat meat at all, so no meat vs. lab meat, not lab meat vs. slaughterhouse meat, as you imply.
Balgair6 days ago
Man, I'm so glad I don't trade stocks.

I was so convinced that these meatless meats were going to be the next big thing.

One thing I think they missed out on was getting to 'close enough' and 'much cheaper' and then just pivoting.

Like, why stay with simulating the 5 or so animals we harvest? Just go off and make up new ones!

Like, here's a jackalope burger, or a unicorn burger or something. Tie into marketing!

"Exclusive to BurgerKing, the Iron Man 5 burger! Now through August 29th only!"

Put in some strange spices, vary the texture, give it a red and gold swirl, let the imagination run wild.

Can you imagine what business a Spiderman burger patty or sausage link would do? K-Pop demon hunters branded chicken-ish nugget like things?

EliRivers6 days ago
It was going to be celebrity meat. As in, genetically identical to celebrities. In some circles, it would become de rigueur to host dinner parties at which one served meat cultured from the people throwing the dinner party. I wanted to see that future.
shagie6 days ago

    I sampled some of Li’s unusual dish while he continued. “I had the ship take a few cells from a variety of people on Earth. Without their knowledge, of course.” He waved the sword vaguely at the table behind us. “Most of you over there will be eating either Stewed Idi Amin or General Pinochet Chilli Con Carne; here in the centre we have a combination of General Stroessner Meat Balls and Richard Nixon Burgers. The rest of you have Ferdinand Marcos Sauté and Shah of Iran Kebabs. ...”

    We ate up, most of us quite amused. One or two thought the idea a little too outré, and some affected boredom because they thought Li needed discouragement not accomplices, while a few were just too full already. But the majority laughed and ate, comparing tastes and textures.

    “If they could see us now,” Roghres giggled. “Cannibals from outer space!”
The State of the Art by Iain Banks (The Culture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_of_the_Art#Collectio...
hydrogen78006 days ago
I always wondered why they tried to mimic "real" meat rather than just making it its own thing. Gluten free cakes are another example. I suppose you need to first penetrate the market/general consciousness first before inventing a whole novel food.
hn_throwaway_996 days ago
There is some confusion I think in what this article is about. It's specifically about lab grown animal cells, which was always crazy expensive and never produced a good tasting meat due to the lack of integrated fat.

That is very different from stuff like Beyond and Impossible Burgers which aim to mimic the taste of meat with plant ingredients. If anything, lab grown meat cells were at a huge disadvantage to the Beyond/Impossible crew, who could make a better meat for cheaper and was more appealing to customers (if I'm going to forego an animal product, I'd rather have a plant version than a frankenmeat version).

But to your point, I really liked Impossible Burgers specifically because they were the only plant-based alternative that really satisfied a craving for meat. There were veggie burgers for years prior, and they were "its own thing", but I'd always feel hungry after eating one. I like Impossible Burgers because it satisfies all my hunger for meat but I'm not killing an animal in the process.

dyauspitr6 days ago
What do you mean by meatless meats? If you meant the beyond burger type of stuff which was just soy heavily processed then there wasn’t a shot in hell it would end up getting big. It’s probably way worse for you than red meat.

You have to wait until you have actual lab grown meat and I think that will actually be really successful if they can create a real meat with all of its complexities and nerves and fat striations, etc. they’re also going to have to prove to people that it’s not gonna cause cancers and things like that but if they can pull that off, it’s going to be a massive massive industry.

chrisco2556 days ago
Red meat is good for you actually.
account426 days ago
People are generally not interested in eating soylent no matter what you color it or what cute name you market it as.
SenHeng5 days ago
I don’t enjoy Soylent as well but the mock meat Buddhist meals made from I-dont-know-what that can be found in countries like Singapore, Taiwan and hongkong are quite delicious.

If you weren’t paying attention, it quite literally tastes and feels like chicken.

https://www.foodadvisor.com.sg/eatery/mock-meat/

nancyminusone6 days ago
Wouldn't you be able to do this with ordinary processed meat today?

I remember as a kid, we once ate some kind of filled chicken nugget thing, which would have been pulped chicken glued back together into a pouch. I thought it was pretty tasty, but in hindsight its probably good that I only got to eat it a couple times, because typing it out now it sounds disgusting and super unhealthy.

plaidfuji6 days ago
I worked in this industry for almost five years. Even the “fermented” alternative meats (bacterial, fungal cell culture) which were basically a drop-in fit with existing large scale fermentation plants were still not cost-competitive with chicken. Some were on par with beef if you made some hand-wavy assumptions about scale.

The killer was usually the downstream processing required to clean out off-flavors and colors, which was required to get even a passable product (these are just protein powder fillers at this point, not whole cuts), but ballooned CapEx and cut yield such that cost went back up to like, A5 Wagyu levels.

I’ve sat in the awkward tasting sessions the author describes, and they’re all the same. The attendees muster up a “that’s pretty good” - but we all know nobody would ever choose to buy this unless they were forced to.

Now that I’ve been out of it for a while, it’s pretty obvious to me what the problems are. Cost, obviously. Taste and texture simply aren’t there. And “the knowing” is real. I never got over imagining the whole factory process involved in the production. I’m sure vegans would say the same about animal farming, though. So my conclusion was, the only way this technology becomes relevant is if people are forced to use it. And that’s either because you’re cruelty-free by choice (small fraction of the population), or because the cost of meat suddenly skyrockets, which today, is not looking that likely. Keep in mind as well that meat costs would likely be driven by feed costs in such a scenario, which also impacts cultivated meat. So it’s ultimately a process efficiency play, and you’re competing against eons of evolution.

dinkblam7 days ago
it is sad how the lobbying of old evil industries like tobacco and animal-killing can convince the politicians and the public to outlaw and demonize their less-evil competition like vaping and lab-grown meat to make sure to hold on to the status quo.

but why write more than 7000 words to communicate a simple point (lab-grown meat was promised 1-2 decades ago but failed to arrive and won't arrive in the foreseeable future)?

sceptic1237 days ago
> less-evil competition like vaping

You mean the e-waste generating companies that actively target children with their highly addictive products?

nazgulsenpai6 days ago
Maybe disposable vapes, but I've had the same refillable mod for a few years now. The "puff" counter is stuck at 99999. No waste except for the plastic bottle I buy the liquid in that lasts about 6 months.
Brendinooo7 days ago
It doesn't seem like there's this finished product ready to go that's just cost-prohibitive because of malicious regulation.

So at this point it's not even clear that anyone is actually losing their grip on the status quo...

lofaszvanitt6 days ago
It could turn into evil quite fast. Just imagine that average joes are forbidden to keep pigs, poultry and the like. Instead you have to buy a zillion dollar lab that creates artificial meat for you.... and pay license fees.
thriving_earthw6 days ago
You mean no more raising tens of millions of pigs and billions of chickens in intense confinement?

Don't threaten me with a good time!

cpursley7 days ago
Is it just pure lobbying or perhaps also consumer preference? Because there’s plenty of money to be made across the entire agriculture and food and production spectrum in the processing of the goop that goes into these types of products. I think a lot of people honestly would rather eat a real vegetarian diet (Indian, etc) than the ultra processed soy beans and various chemical binders wearing a meat Halloween costume.
Cpoll7 days ago
> the ultra processed soy beans and various chemical binders wearing a meat Halloween costume.

This reads like propaganda. Take tofurkey for example, it's just seitan and tofu and the same "chemical binders" you'll see in every other product in the freezer aisle.

And tofu is only as "ultra-processed" as cheese or bread is.

jareklupinski7 days ago
you've never purchased something, then had someone question that purchase? the reflex to defend yourself, even knowing an action is morally wrong, is very strong, and we need to find a better way to help these people divest without losing "face"
folocitoan6 days ago
People love to judge others, and people hate being judged. But it's possible to stop looking down on people, while I don't think it's possible to stop feeling bad when people look down on you. The solution is stop judging people, not to tell people to toughen up.

Just as a matter of what's more effective, even aside from the fact that judging people is inherently wrong.

chneu7 days ago
We need to raise people to stop blaming others and just accept responsibility for our actions.

Plenty of folks can take criticism.

lordnacho7 days ago
I'm a bit surprised that we got disembodied intelligence before we got deathless meat. If you'd told me in the year 2000 that one of these would happen, I'd have put my money on the meat.
stephbook7 days ago
Hardware is harder than software.
falcor847 days ago
But "disembodied" intelligence is also built on top of massive amounts of hardware advances and infrastructure investment.
raincole7 days ago
Because there is much less demand for deathless meat. Milk + eggs + legumes are good enough for many vegetarians. They're even cheaper than real meat in most places. On the other hand, human intelligence, by definition, can't be affordable for someone on a middle income.
lordnacho7 days ago
Also we still don't really know what we mean by intelligence, even though we've now invented a version of it. You'd have thought that question would need some more investigation before we could build it, but here we are.
chneu7 days ago
Lol milk is not deathless in the least.

This is a great example of how the propaganda is working.

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