45 points•jameslk•7 days ago•44 comments•

44 comments

toomuchtodo7 days ago
https://archive.today/IO7lA

> Yesterday, I told you Mexico’s total fertility rate is at 1.2. Today, let me remind you that Argentina’s total fertility rate is at 1.05: screenshot from the Argentine statistical agency below. Yes, 1.05. Argentina, in 2014, was at 2.3: a drop of more than 50% in a decade.

> And before you tell me “it’s Milei’s/the Peronists’/Leo Messi’s fault,” remember the following: of the 236 countries and territories on the planet, 219 have a clear negative trend in fertility. Of the remaining 17, I’d say the trend is negative as well in probably 16, although statistical methods have a hard time picking it up for one reason or another. The remaining one? Israel.

> So, if you think fertility is going down in your country because of some country-specific reason X, well, you might want to think twice.

https://ourworldindata.org/population-simulation-tool?demogr...

https://ourworldindata.org/which-countries-have-already-pass...

Peak population forecasted for 2050.

South Korea – A cautionary tale for the rest of humanity - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46230576 - December 2025 (177 comments) ("Childbearing decisions are memetically influenced. They are shaped by the decisions peers make and the examples they see around them in everyday life.")

Birthgap [video] - https://youtube.com/watch?v=m2GeVG0XYTc

daymanstep7 days ago
> Childbearing decisions are memetically influenced. They are shaped by the decisions peers make and the examples they see around them in everyday life.

Surely this explanation is circular. People look around and see that their peers are having fewer kids. But why are their peers having fewer kids to begin with? There has to be a backstop somewhere otherwise you get infinite regress.

toomuchtodo7 days ago
Because children are expensive, in time, fiat, and opportunity cost while the freedom of being childfree is free if you choose to have less or no children. Social media allows for the socialization of these ideas at speed versus historical transmission rate of culture and social norms. This is covered most robustly in my Birthgap video citation above, additional citation below (by the same author as the tweet that is this post).

Terra Incognita: The Economics of a Shrinking World [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49352811 - August 2026

> "As of 2026, humanity is likely below replacement fertility. That has never happened before, not in wars or pandemics. But the real surprise is that the fall has been concentrated in low- and middle-income countries and among poorer and less educated women. We fit a single-factor model to 236 countries since 1950: the common component peaked in 1978, and what drives fertility down today are country-specific trends, 219 of them negative and not one leveling off. None of the commonly cited mechanisms can account for this pattern, so we offer a conjecture: modernity itself, which makes a third child expensive and childlessness cheap. Children come in integers, so it takes very little to move a cohort’s fertility rate from 1.8 to 1.3. And nothing in an economy pushes fertility back to 2.1. We close with the main economic consequences, in particular slow growth."

> There has to be a backstop somewhere otherwise you get infinite regress.

In summary, the global population boom happened because women were not educated and empowered to assert their reproductive choices. They are now. We are currently performing neutral fertility rate discovery via who does and does not choose to have children when it is a choice, versus when it is not a choice or forgone conclusion. A byproduct of this was economic growth, which is coming to an end, and will not repeat in our lifetimes based on demographic trends and trajectories.

naveen997 days ago
South Korea is more densely populated than India. Exponential growth comes to an end when there is no more room.
toomuchtodo7 days ago
South Korea’s problem is sexism, not space. My citation above speaks to this in depth.
alastair16467 days ago
If the global baby boom lead to all the technological and lifestyle improvements of the twentieth century, I’m getting a little nervous for them twenty first…
garethsprice7 days ago
That's a big if. The largest technological improvements (electrification, internal combustion, antibiotics, plumbing) mostly arrived before the post-1950 population explosion, and productivity growth slowed right as population growth peaked in the late 60s. What drove tech innovation was research and R&D spending, much of it funded by governments as part of war efforts.

Wait, now I'm nervous...

skywal_l7 days ago
Aren't you confusing causes and consequences here?
Alifatisk7 days ago
Correlation and causation
dzonga7 days ago
children of men becoming prophetic day by day.

funny enough before people used to make estimates of how earth won't have resources to carry a large population. hence some people would need to settle in space or that there needs to a massive drive in birth control, which led to Chinese 1 child policy which has had a devastating effect.

aeve8907 days ago
>children of men becoming prophetic day by day

The movie even starts with news of the dead of the last human born... a 18 years-old argentinian

tw047 days ago
It is only a “devastating effect” if your only measure of success is unsustainable capitalistic growth.

If you measure it in terms of sustainable human life on earth, it was rather effective

blargey7 days ago
Mass forced sterilization, sex-selective abortion and infanticide, 13 million heihaizi (unregistered children = "illegals" in their homeland), ongoing repercussions in the skewed gender ratio and demographic cliff / "4-2-1" families...

And all for supposedly controlling a birth rate that had already fallen to 2.7 by the time it was implemented. And modern scholarship suggests the typical effects of economic development would have kept it running down steadily without all the costs incurred by an unevenly enforced law, given what happened everywhere else that had no birth-control policies.

The whole world seemed to buy into the narrative at the time, but history has shown it to be an example of misguided authoritarian foot-gun akin to the Four Pests campaign.

DeluluDon7 days ago
Not everything is capitalism.
karim797 days ago
Damn I need to watch that again. Was a great film.
chinathrow7 days ago
Everyone is staring at their screens and miss out talking to their partner about the future, a family and making love.
paimapi7 days ago
I'm looking at my screen making love to my partner with the express purpose of making a baby

- Sent from my Lovesense Gush 3

UncleMeat6 days ago
A significant cause of lower birth rates in the US is a large reduction in teen pregnancy. That's a good thing.
ericmcer7 days ago
This isn't talked about enough, whenever people mention declining fertility rates it is all about the economy and boomers and climate change dread.

If our current situation was that bad than we would never have made it as a species. We have been cranking out babies through way bleaker times than this.

thfuran7 days ago
But we are, I think, far more thoroughly bombarded with news about how doomed everything is than in prior generations. 24 hour news is itself pretty new, and social media is more pervasive than it ever was.
rchaud7 days ago
Oh yeah, who wouldn't prefer to look at their phone instead of banging?

People have had the baby conversation. The stumbling block is money, not Reels or Tiktok. A 50% drop in fertility if true, is low compared to the percentage increase in the cost of childcare, nutrition and education. Especially in a country like Argentina where the locals do not see a future for themselves there even as the billionaires like Gates and Thiel buy up farmland and luxury real estate like no tomorrow - pun intended.

bayarearefugee7 days ago
Fertility rate is dropping almost everywhere.

People are not optimistic about the future, and why should they be?

The previously "looming" climate crisis that we did little to nothing to slow down is here, now, and the real-world negative effects of it are getting worse faster than the predictions that a lot of people used to label as alarmist.

Economic inequality is teetering nearly all of the world's economies on the brink of runaway major crises.

I'm stuck here in this ridiculous society we're running off a cliff, but I don't have to doom anyone else to this fate by having kids.

nomel7 days ago
This completely and entirely ignores what was actually happening in Argentina over the past 10 years, and I think the reason is the same as everywhere else: cost of living is too high. Argentina was in a state of hyperinflation in 2023.
monideas7 days ago
It’s the inflation itself, not the cost of living. Inflation does weird things sociologically and psychologically, you’re messing with the fabric of human economic relations which is implicated in status hierarchies and assortative mating
randycupertino7 days ago
Climate crisis and economic crisis both prevent people from wanting kids.
Apocryphon7 days ago
It's dropping almost everywhere because the world is slowing urbanizing and abandoning subsistence agriculture.
mistrial97 days ago
> Fertility rate is dropping almost everywhere.

that is not true - this is ignorant of facts

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