440 points•an0malous•8 days ago•500 comments•

500 comments

robbyrussell7 days ago
I sat front row for David's talk yesterday morning. Having talked with him the day before, I’ll admit… I wasn’t particularly surprised (nor unprepared).

A bit of a field report from #RailsWorld: the vibe here is far from doom and gloom. Quite the contrary. Wherever our industry is headed, most of us are still employed as menders… tending to systems that customers rely on and businesses are quite happy to keep paying for.

Most of us aren’t waking up to a blank canvas and designing the architecture of the future. We’re inheriting decisions made years ago, updating old patterns, working around constraints, and keeping this shit running reliably.

I think these newer tools give us an opportunity to wonder a little more about the systems we’ve inherited. To unpack why things work the way they do. To tinker with assumptions we haven’t had the time, confidence, or permission to revisit… and share what we learn so the next person, or agent, has an easier time.

That deployment model we picked eight years ago? Worth another look. Some of our web apps probably wish they were native apps. And there are plenty of architectural decisions we’ve been living with mostly because… well, we’ve been busy living with them.

There’s plenty of understandable anxiety about what these tools mean for our work. I’m increasingly curious about what they give us permission to revisit.

Once my keynote is published, I’ll share more about a little programming-language-adjacent framework I’ve been working on for approaching exactly this kind of curiosity.

In the meantime… keep showing up. Keep wondering.

Long live Ruby. Long live Rails.

p(bloom)

lbrito6 days ago
Its easy to be optimistic when you're sitting on millions (dhh). You literally don't need to care about how any of this affects your job security.
nickjj6 days ago
Right, or paying for AI models in general.

There is a world of difference of having tens of millions of dollars and paying hundreds of dollars a month for AI subscriptions vs someone making 100k / year doing the same.

For the DHH's of the world that's not even something to think about, but for most people who are working (even in tech), now we're talking 2-8%+ of your income depending how much you use AI. Just to have the "luxury" of being able to experiment with it. I use air quotes on luxury because I personally find a lot of AI results to be quite bad, but then again, I'm not spending hundreds of dollars a month on the premium models.

stephenhuey5 days ago
Good point. Most of us at the conference are still trying to make a living with Rails. That's not a concern for him. Can he remember what it was like to have to do that? Probably, but he feels very differently waking up each day than the rest of us.

Here is the description for the Rails World 2026 Opening Keynote:

"Opening Keynote highlighting what's new in Rails, what's coming next, and where Rails is headed in the future."

DHH literally did not cover that. Not even close!

The first response in the conference chat described it as the "worst opening keynote possible to setup the Rails World conference." While someone soon disagreed with that, another guy later said he felt it undermined the later talks, and someone else said the Laracon conference had more about what the framework is doing in the AI age. He barely mentioned Rails. I get how he was excited about his experiments but I certainly wish he had focused more on what Rails is doing for this new era.

jstummbillig6 days ago
The list of people who have made millions and would be indifferent when the source of those millions is being challenged can not be very long.
secstate6 days ago
How can Rails live long if no one creates new things with it? Our web applications aren't like the Pyramids at Giza. DHH literally said that even without a blank canvas (Hey's backend) they were still able to re-write the backend in Rust and are not looking back.

That sure sounds like any savvy business should pivot away from Rails and Ruby in general as fast as they can, assuming they have tokens to burn. Personally, I built my career on Python, but any new thing I build is almost always in Go or Rust. Why mess with an interpreter if you don't have to?

spiralpolitik6 days ago
Having built two apps in the last two years using Rails (one making front page on Hacker News and has 10,000 plus users), there is a sweet spot that Rails hits that other frameworks don’t.

The fact that you get so much out of the box that just works and you don’t have to do much beyond configure it reduces a ton of headaches.

Absolutely would rather be using Go instead of Ruby but for apps of a certain kind and size, the omakase approach of Rails still wins out.

MattyMc6 days ago
He clarified today, saying he would build any new app today in Rails. Should that app become so popular that it would benefit from Rust, he would rewrite it in Rust.
ch4s36 days ago
> Why mess with an interpreter if you don't have to?

I mean I haven’t touched Ruby in years but if you’ve got tokens to burn, who cares? Compute is pretty cheap these days and Ruby is usually fast enough for web stuff, and as far as I can tell 2nd hand the robots write it just fine.

And I say this as someone building a strongly typed programming language that compiles to native code.

ksec6 days ago
I actually have no problem with him even if he directly say it out loud announcing the death of Ruby and Rails. And I am not even against agents taking over some jobs meaning less jobs for current developers. That is part of how new technology has always been, replacing some and we move on.

It is just that it shouldn't be done in the opening keynote of a conference. I thought it was very irresponsible to the other smaller sponsors and those who paid to join. I know Shopify fund most of it and is likely on the same stand.

Aurornis6 days ago
> In the meantime… keep showing up. Keep wondering.

> Long live Ruby. Long live Rails.

> p(bloom)

These aphorisms try to put a more positive spin on the keynote, but they miss the point that made it so disappointing for a lot of people.

They travelled to a Ruby on Rails conference because they wanted to hear RoR talks. The keynote was all about AI and Rust and ended with “don’t be losers” about the AI debate.

Ruby on Rails content not found.

I suppose the die hard fans who have been around this long and who continue to travel to see DHH speak have aligned themselves with him as a personality figure, maybe more so than with Rails itself. Outside of that bubble, it just feels sad that one person used the conference to do yet another controversial move in an inflammatory way while ignoring the topic everyone travelled for. I say this as someone who uses a lot of AI and also agrees that programming work has changed. It’s just so insulting to be surprise-lectured about it with condescending “don’t be losers” comments when the topic was supposed to be Rails.

There was an opportunity to talk about what AI meant for the future of Rails, but instead he went off bragging about rewriting Hey in Rust. Rust has been my primary language for years, but I don’t want to be lectured about it in a Rails keynote while Rails discussion is nowhere to be found.

iohvvbhdyh6 days ago
I think his talk is all about what AI means to rails. It's dead.

Those who travelled to a soon to be dead web frameworks conference might appreciate the heads up.

Those who refuse to accept or believe it might be salty.

embedding-shape6 days ago
> the vibe here is far from doom and gloom.

To be fair, this is true of most of AFK world. Things start seeing a lot less doomy and gloomy when you're actually outside talking with other humans. Seems to mostly be online and various darker corners where they're dooming and glooming.

Lio6 days ago
I get why DHH would be really happy about getting rid of engineers. It's less clear how this isn't a little bit gloomy for the engineers.

Is the idea that they'll switch to doing "product owner" roles overseeing agents? I don't see that employing the same number of people or paying as well as engineering used to.

To be honest I expect that that role to suit different people to those that used to be engineers.

If this feels gloomy to some people, it's because it is.

4ndrewl6 days ago
the algorithm is programmed to deliver it. Better engagement metrics with misery and anger than joy and hopefulness. (yes I know that you will reply 'but I prefer the joy and hope', but that's not the case across the wider population)
ryanSrich6 days ago
And I think the online reality is much closer to the truth than AFK reality. I can't think of a single founder I've talked to in the past two years that's building with rails. That doesn't mean rails dies overnight, but it does mean it's simply all downhill from here.
robgough7 days ago
Concerns with his politics aside, I do think there's a truth to what he's talking about here, and that he is just spelling out the reality that developers are, or shortly will be, facing. For many this will be deeply uncomfortable to hear.

It is notable that his perspective in this talk is very much from a developer-user side rather than someone who is responsible for the framework itself. That surprises me, and I suspect it is not a good omen for Rails.

For all of this embrace of agentic development, there is nothing here on how they are adapting the framework for this new agentic development reality. Agents do currently work well with Rails, but there's nothing here pushing things forward as best as I can see.

I know for my own projects I've largely moved to Elixir/Phoenix, for similar reasons to his use of Rust... I didn't want to have to learn it, but now I don't have to and I get to benefit from its strengths.

andrewmutz6 days ago
I think a lot of people haven't actually watched his talk and don't understand what he is saying. If you watch the talk, he is not anti-rails. He is just very pro- agentic coding.

What he was saying in his talk was that his customers (people using Hey for email and calendar) never really wanted hybrid web-native apps, they want native apps (like most people prefer on mobile). His business could never afford to have a dev team that built and supported six different native apps, so they always built using hybrid web-native stuff using Turbo Native.

Now that his development team has access to agentic coding, they can build and maintain six mobile native apps. For his app, the back end part then becomes small and simple and they can reimplement it in rust to reduce server cost.

His point wasn't that rust is better than ruby, or anything like that. His point was that agentic coding allows smaller teams to do bigger things. For most people building on rails, their customers don't need native mobile apps (I know mine don't) and for them Rails is a fantastic choice for agentic coding.

Rails is so into agentic coding that they publish benchmarks of how effective different models are for building with rails:

https://rubyonrails.org/ai

TLDR: DHH isn't anti-rails, he is pro-agentic coding. Rails is great with agentic coding. AI doesn't mean layoffs, it means your teams can do much more than they could do before.

aogaili6 days ago
It seems to me, so far, everyone moved one level up.

- A layperson can now build one a solo developer can do

- A solo dev can now build what an agency of web development can do

- An agency of web development can now build native apps similar to what large corporation can do

- Large corporation can now tackle even more ambitious projects

Which makes sense given what got automated. This is with the current tech, people still exploring the full potential, but if that turns out to be the case then I'd argue the software market will grow substantially and we are just having an adjustment period.

dmix6 days ago
> If you watch the talk, he is not anti-rails.

He explicitly said he still loves ruby as a language and thinks Rails is well suited for a future with AI coding.

It's interesting how this stuff gets spun on social media by people who don't watch the content.

didibus6 days ago
> AI doesn't mean layoffs, it means your teams can do much more than they could do before.

That sounds like layoffs lol.

newlisp6 days ago
He's not anti-rails. He just won't be using it.
Hamuko6 days ago
>His business could never afford to have a dev team that built and supported six different native apps

I have a hard time believing that, considering his hobby of racing cars and commissioning one-off hypercars. Unless it's that his business could never afford that dev team after DHH takes his salary.

dofm6 days ago
> Concerns with his politics aside, I do think there's a truth to what he's talking about here

One thing the AI era has changed for me is how easily I spot Gell-Mann amnesia, of which this is an unfortunately strong example.

His politics, even putting aside their nature, are framed with deliberate misuse of facts and data; why would he be someone to listen to in any depth on any other topic?

revetkn6 days ago
Gell-Mann amnesia assumes a journalist is not an expert on _anything_. In this case, DHH is (according to some) an expert on software but it's much less clear he's an expert on politics. So I'm not sure Gell-Mann amnesia applies here, it's maybe more like Nobel disease, where you're an expert on one thing and assume it "transfers" to other fields.
diego_sandoval6 days ago
> His politics [...] are framed with deliberate misuse of facts and data;

Any specific examples? I am/was out of the loop on this and had to Google "DHH politics" to know what people are talking about.

themgt6 days ago
One thing the AI era has changed for me is how easily I spot Gell-Mann amnesia, of which this is an unfortunately strong example.

The one for me is spotting the Baader-Meinhof effect, of which this is an unfortunately strong example.

suhlig6 days ago
Thank you for mentioning the effect by name. I read first about it 20 years ago, memorized it under a totally different name, and was never able to find it again.
dorianmariecom6 days ago
> The Gell-Mann amnesia effect is a cognitive bias where a person spots major errors in a media report on a topic they know well, yet completely forgets that unreliability and trusts the rest of the same publication on unfamiliar topics.
jstummbillig6 days ago
> That surprises me, and I suspect it is not a good omen for Rails.

I had a fairly opposite reaction: Knowing what you can't be and how much less important your past work is going to be is good. If there are good reasons for more people doing less in Rails, then the creator is probably the person you want to be most level headed about that.

(They can, of course, still be wrong)

pipes6 days ago
By "concerns" did you mean to say "I don't agree with some of his political opinions".
CodingJeebus7 days ago
I literally just patched an AI-generated API endpoint on a new service at work that shipped without any auth whatsoever, because AI was re-implementing the auth token check method individually in each child controller instead of implementing once in a before_action hook. That's Rails 101 stuff and the app is small. It was so obvious that I saw it right away just reading the code, I didn't even set an agent loose to do an initial inspection. It was a real "yeah I still got it" moment for me.

I'm on board with the idea that agents are going to write most of the code, but not checking it is just insane to me, based on some of the things I've seen committed in commercial codebases recently.

robgough7 days ago
One of the strengths of Rails was that it helped developers who maybe didn't always know the "best way" to build things to build in a standards compliant way – not that you couldn't do things like return a 200 for Not Found if you really wanted to etc.

I'm always pleased when working with a dev who has Rails experience even if they've since moved stack, as often they have picked up and learned the value of these good behaviours. Perhaps it's as much a community thing as a framework thing, or combination of both.

Agentic development definitely still has room to improve, but I suspect that there is some future framework (maybe even language) designed to help minimise these types of mistakes.

whazor6 days ago
Software engineering is so back.

When designing systems, you want the important details to be right. Especially with authentication and authorization.

From an architecture level, you can know which classes are important to review and which ones are not.

senderista6 days ago
Why do you think an AI audit (say from Fable/Astra at xhigh) wouldn't have caught this?
timhh6 days ago
What model though?
lovedaddy6 days ago
Nah I'm good thanks. Call me old school, but I'd rather understand how things work, and try and keep a maintainable codebase. Rather than just get some random rust I've no idea what it is, or why it does it, pushed into prod.

I think this is going to be todays 'cheap outsource' culture. Good enough to keep shareholders happy, an apparent boost in productivity, before tanking the reliability of the company.

Remember when we used to scorn stackoverflow developers, or PRs that were more than a few lines long. An every morning git pull is now bigger than my terminal buffer, its complete chaos. Numbers game to keep the new metrics world gamification going. Its dire.

epolanski6 days ago
I want to agree with you, at heart I do, but:

1. AI is exposing the harsh truth that 99% of the code out there has always been throwaway code. Yet good developers, void of any engineering skill, treated it like the 1% that wasn't and called their hygiene and practices engineering.

2. Way too many developers that have made their careers or internet fame out of their technical proficiency understand that the shift is unavoidable. See Antirez implementation of Arrays in Redis or his Dwarfstar project. Virtually every line of these projects has been AI authored. And yet they are terrific projects with extremely strong architecture. And not a single line was edited in vi (his favorite editor).

mattm5 days ago
> Virtually every line of these projects has been AI authored

There's a difference between everything being vibe-coded where you don't look at the code and don't understand anything and using your agent like a very fast pair programmer.

It looks like Antirez did the latter. From https://antirez.com/news/164:

> In the first month I just wrote the specification document...Thanks to AI, the specification evolved a lot, via back and forth of feedback, intellectual challenges about what was the best design, what was the right compromise, what was too engineered and what not.

> You know what was the biggest realization of all that? For high quality system programming tasks you have to still be fully involved

Judgement will be required even moreso now. There will be critical parts of the system where it's important that engineers know them well. But there's a lot of work around the core that isn't that critical to know in detail. For these types of things, I've found it's just important to understand the gist to make sure things aren't going off the rails. But for the core pieces, it's important to understand the details of what's happening.

_doctor_love5 days ago
I think you are both correct.

I agree that we have to keep understanding our code and we have to understand the systems we build.

I think the deeper issue is that AI can generate so much code that reading it simply doesn't scale.

Even if AI were to produce perfectly written code that didn't have any bugs that human review needed to catch, it would still be too much code to read in order to understand everything. The machine can write much faster than I can read.

Extending this argument further, it also becomes impossible to onboard young people to codebases if we maintain an expectation that reading all the lower level source code is how they come up to speed. I don't think this was ever an actual expectation in the industry, although we may have short-handed it that way in conversation.

So IMHO we need to come up with higher level visualizations and other ways to compress the knowledge that we used to get out of reading source code. We basically need to create new higher level projections off of our semantic understanding of the project.

commandersaki4 days ago
Ignorance is bliss aye.
zerr6 days ago
So the keynote mentions that in a perspective you are going to be a "maker of things" rather than a coder. But, nobody is asking, in a perspective, why would anybody use the stuff you "make" rather than using AI directly? All of the notion of apps disappears, in a perspective.
fy206 days ago
Do you change the oil on your car yourself? No? Why not? Buying the oil, filters and all the tools you need to do it forever would cost less than one oil change at the dealership. Plenty of videos on YouTube you can learn from.
kennywinker6 days ago
Sure, but changing the oil means buying a bunch of stuff and getting dirty. Replacing your vibe coded garbage app with my vibe coded garbage app is much much easier than changing my oil.

That said, I think this only applies to apps that can be replaced by vibe coded garbage. Anything with a network effect, or anything that requires deep domain knowledge is much safer

officeplant6 days ago
> Buying the oil, filters and all the tools you need to do it forever would cost less than one oil change at the dealership.

Are you changing your own oil? The cost of oil alone usually ends up being around 3 DIY changes vs one at the dealer ship. The mobile 1 synthetic I like is currently $92 for a 3-pack of 5qt containers. Which is enough for 3 oil changes with some left over to almost do a 4th. Dealership currently wants $84+tax for change w/free tire rotation. It's cheaper but certainly not "do it forever", and living in an apartment often means risking getting a warning from the landlord for doing auto maintenance in the parking lot since its against the stated rules in the lease.

win311fwg6 days ago
> Why not?

Drain plug is in a stupid location that I don't often feel like dealing with. I do change the oil myself in all my other machines with much more pleasant for oil change designs, though. So I guess what you are saying is that AI isn't ergonomic enough yet, but will that hold true much longer?

aogaili6 days ago
Because it does take some skills, judgement, taste, knowledge, time and effort to build things. He said it is not very different from directing a team of contractors, and also said that a 10x dev in now 1000x with a tool like this. He also gave the parallel of photography to address this point, that people were forced to be more creative and adapt.

But I assume you didn't use to build anything substantial.

zerr6 days ago
> it does take some skills, judgement, taste, knowledge, time and effort to build things

As of now, but we are talking in a perspective.

Jtarii6 days ago
>and also said that a 10x dev in now 1000x with a tool like this

Yeah, I'm sure you are doing ~4 years worth of work per day. Get real Jesus Christ.

jjarvis6 days ago
I have been thinking quite a bit about this lately. I am in the process of building my own music software applications. This is actually allowing me to leave MacOS since Ableton was previously the anchor for me. I can now build tools that are more geared towards what I always wanted in Rust much like DHH was talking about in that talk.

I could sell some of my tools I built but I am on the fence about it. As a few others have said, there is still work and taste that goes into those tools that some might not want to put the effort into. However, there will be an increasing number of people who just build bespoke tools for themselves. That's probably ok. There's a market for both.

The most important thing now (and maybe always) is distribution. If anyone can build something then it ultimately comes down to your ability to market, build trust and provide support at 2:30 AM. That's hard to do when you're a one person shop. Software is an ongoing operational commitment if you make it your business.

usef-6 days ago
At least at the current level of AI, it still takes days/weeks/months to make a good app if you have standards. That's not effort everyone will want to do.
arexxbifs6 days ago
A lot can (and should) be said about this keynote, but I have a hangup on portraiture as an example of "creative destruction" (how I loathe that expression!). Classical portraiture is still alive and well and artists are still able to make a living from it - possibly even more of them now than during the 1800s.

The advent of the camera did push visual art in new directions, but not quite as presented here. Oil painting and portraiture wasn't as static as it's made out to be, and there's a difference between a commissioned portrait and artists painting people because they enjoy painting people. Giuseppe Arcimboldo, El Greco and Hieronymus Bosch are some of the most well-known experimenters in western art and they were active in the 1500s. Some of the most famous art movements (impressionism, expressionism, arts & crafts) appeared well before photography was democratized.

The biggest difference, though - as much as I love art - is that portraits are a distraction. Then as now, it's mostly a vanity project for the affluent and of little consequence to the lives of the vast majority. Software, on the other hand, is not only a multi-billion dollar industry employing millions of people, it's also a direct matter of life and death, since it's an essential component in things like nuclear power plants, airplanes and medical equipment.

rafterydj5 days ago
Hieronymus Bosch is such an interesting case, and I like your point in comparing oil painting to photography. Unfortunately I also share your concern about software's criticality. Therac-25 comes to mind as a case study taught to us in computer science university courses, that have haunted me in recent times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25?wprov=sfla1
_doctor_love5 days ago
> "creative destruction" (how I loathe that expression!)

It is sadly a fundamental feature of capitalism. We will see this again and again as long as our economic system is set up the way it current is. Just imagine, there will be a time in the perhaps not-too-distant future when the old folks of that time will lament how easy the kids of today have it!

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