The warmth of sunlight is not a reliable indicator of how quickly you will sunburn in a given situation. On one hand, you can still get sunburned on a cooler...

99 points•evakhoury•8 days ago•79 comments•

79 comments

Terr_8 days ago
> Sunburn is triggered when your DNA is damaged from light absorption [...] This interferes with protein synthesis and wreaks havoc in your body over time

Not a skin-scientist, but this seems misleading: Sunburn is not caused by some bad DNA floating around, nor damaged cells making making mistakes or pumping out wrong proteins to inflame their neighbors.

Instead, your cells have techniques to measure a variety of risk factors and signals (which does include DNA-molecule weirdness [0]) and when things get too risky the well-behaved ones will self-destruct, to avoid the chance of turning into a cancer.

So the sunburn you see and feel is instead due to cells signalling "something damaged me and I can't be trusted, I'm shutting down, recycle me" to your immune-system, plus the attendant bustle of hazmat-cleanup and increased security-sweeps for cancer-leftovers and other potential causes of the damage.

[0] https://www.nature.com/articles/newbio241074a0

skullone8 days ago
This whole article shouldn't even exist, and should just point to wikipedia or mayo clinic.
somat8 days ago
Another interesting way to consider it is that a sunburn is a really mild case of radiation sickness.

Or the other way radiation sickness is the deepest worst sunburn you have ever had.

EA-31678 days ago
DNA is the instruction set for protein synthesis. If your DNA is damaged beyond repair that's an issue, and sure apoptosis is the usual result and not cancer. At the same time however when cells die either from the direct impact of DNA damage or apoptosis they both stop working and spill their contents into the area... including signalling molecules that promote inflammation.

The sunburn you feel isn't a distress signal from cells warning that they can't be trusted, it's tissue death and an inflammatory reaction triggered by a cytokine response.

Terr_7 days ago
> > [The sunburn you feel is] cells signalling "something damaged me and I can't be trusted, I'm shutting down, recycle me" to your immune-system, plus the attendant bustle of hazmat-cleanup and increased security-sweeps for cancer-leftovers and other potential causes of the damage.cells signalling "something damaged me and I can't be trusted, I'm shutting down, recycle me" to your immune-system, plus the attendant bustle of hazmat-cleanup and increased security-sweeps

> The sunburn you feel isn't a distress signal from cells warning that they can't be trusted, it's tissue death and an inflammatory reaction triggered by a cytokine response.

I feel that's more of a restatement than a contradiction.

The cell shutdown is (eventually) violent and messy, signalling involves cytokines, and the "hazmat and security" metaphor is an inflammation response.

rogerrogerr8 days ago
Our immune system is _so cool_. Seems like every week I learn something new about it.
Terr_8 days ago
As a book recommendation: Immune - Journey Into the Mysterious System That Keeps You Alive by Dettmer, Philipp.

Or for something a bit more immediate and casual, the Kurzgesagt playlist of immune-system videos. [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/show/VLPLFs4vir_WsTyS2cy4vj4obl5igqC...

nomel8 days ago
I don't know about this. I can feel where there are holes in my sunblock (which only block UV) which lets me know where to apply it, and the sensation is not one of heat of the sun, it's different. I'm not sure about the mechanism, but the presence of the sunblock stops the "UV" type sensation. This from the moment I put it on to long after the water component of the sunblock has evaporated. And, the type of sunblock doesn't matter (the drier waterproof kind or various lotion varieties). And, I do notice a difference between the different SPF, along with some "bad" sunblock that I just kept applying but couldn't make the feeling go away (it had apparently separated, and everyone that used it was burned).

I think the "real" test would be to just shine a UV light in a dark room, to see if the source can be identified while blindfolded, or something.

crazygringo8 days ago
Thank you -- I'm exactly the same. You're right, it doesn't feel like heat, it feels like... something else, I have no words for it.

It usually goes together with bright direct sunlight in the summer, so I think most people don't learn to notice or distinguish it.

But I find that it's on particular overcast days in the summer, when there is no direct sunlight, that you can feel it intensely without the accompanying sunlight/heat. It reminds me to put on sunblock. But it's not all overcast days -- it's strongest when there's a light cloudy "haze". In contrast, when it's thick clouds approaching thunderstorm, you obviously don't feel it at all.

So it's that kind of thing that's hard to judge before you go outside, but as soon as you do, you get a clear "oh, I definitely need to go back in and put in sunblock" or "oh, this is fine, no sunblock needed today".

The best way I can explain it is as kind of an "oppressive" feeling, almost like a kind of pressure on your skin. Like, you can describe heat that way too -- oppressive or like a kind of pressure -- but in this case, you're feeling those things when there is no heat.

And when you are at the beach on a hot sunny day, I find it kind of magical how the sunblock removes the feeling entirely. It's still sunny and bright and hot, but you don't feel the oppressive/pressure feeling together with it.

kgc8 days ago
Also get the pressure feeling, but via eyes.
stogot8 days ago
It is a numb pressure for me
samusiam8 days ago
After you sure that isn't because your skin is moist where sunblock was recently applied, and therefore cooler?
esseph8 days ago
Sunblock is supposed to reflect UVA/UVB, but doesn't do much for infrared or visible light, which is why your skin gets warmer.

(Edited, fixed)

taneq8 days ago
I’ve always thought of sunblock as taking the ‘sting’ out of the sunlight. It’s a separate sensation that I can feel even on a cold day.

This is in Australia where the hole in the ozone layer often results in 10x ‘normal’ UV levels, you can get noticeably burned in a few minutes.

jandrewrogers8 days ago
Australia’s UV is only modestly higher than other places at similar latitude. It is similar to equatorial regions and isn’t remotely close to 10x anywhere. You can experience the same UV index in the tropics.

Some parts of South America have a UV index twice that of Sydney’s maximum. All of the actually extreme UV index locales are extreme altitude and near equatorial.

meatmanek8 days ago
> This is in Australia where the hole in the ozone layer often results in 10x ‘normal’ UV levels, you can get noticeably burned in a few minutes.

By 10x you mean 10% more, and by ozone layer you mean the fact that the southern hemisphere's summer coincides with Earth's perihelion while the northern hemisphere's summer coincides with aphelion.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2025-02-04/sun-summer-uv...

kens8 days ago
The details of UV damage are interesting. You can think of DNA as a sequence of four letters: C, G, A, and T. If there are two neighboring T's, UV can move a bond, linking the two T's together (i.e. thymine dimerization). If you're in the sun, each skin cell gets 50-100 of these pairs created per second (which is much higher than I expected). Enzymes fix most of these errors, but sometimes the errors will cause problems during DNA replication and you can end up with mutations.

Details: https://pdb101.rcsb.org/motm/91

pazimzadeh8 days ago
I wish people would stop saying UV without clarifying what wavelength they mean. Damage from UVA and UVB is very different.

UVB light can promote DNA repair pathways:

Enhancement of UVB-induced DNA damage repair after a chronic low-dose UVB pre-stimulation

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15687...

UVA can slow down repair of damage from UVB:

Long-wavelength UVA enhances UVB-induced cell death in cultured keratinocytes: DSB formation and suppressed survival pathway

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33978941/

GuB-428 days ago
I think I got the worst sunburns when I didn't feel hot at all.

Usually, it involves water, water cools you down, so you don't feel the heat, but it doesn't block UV, so you don't get the warning.

koolba8 days ago
Overcast days are the worst offenders for sunburn because the melanin impaired don’t feel the heat of the sun to remind them they are going to roast.
cortesoft8 days ago
I have always heard sunny snow days are the worst, because you feel cold, but the sun is still hitting you, plus reflecting off the snow to hit you twice.
bwnkl8 days ago
I agree that it very much depends on latitude and time of year. In most of Europe, overcast days usually don't present much of a problem for me, but I remember spending a day at the beach in Ecuador under very dense cloud cover and getting one of the worst burns I've ever had
pazimzadeh8 days ago
They are also the worst because you get mostly UVA since UVB has a harder time penetrating through cloud cover
nephihaha8 days ago
Depends which part of the world you are in. I've never been sunburnt on an overcast day where I live.
piltdownman8 days ago
Anecdotally from an Irish dermatologist - the majority of her clients under 30 are holiday sunburn casualties from either Iberian waterparks or activities like snorkeling/skin-diving in SEA. The ones over 30 are basically all farmers.

She has her entire family wearing SPF20 24/365, constantly reminding me 'it's the overcast days that actually do the long-term damage'.

nephihaha8 days ago
It depends a lot on the position of the sun in the sky too. It can be warm around sunset and sunrise, but because the sun is so low to the horizon, it is passing through more atmosphere.

I spent a lot of time out in the sun by the Dead Sea and did not burn at all, since the very low altitude seems to have provided me with extra protection, whereas nearby on the shores of the Red Sea, at sea level, I did burn with similar levels of exposure.

xattt8 days ago
I am curious if anyone else can tell whether it is a high UV day just by looking outside.

There is a certain look to the sky (slightly whiter-bluer) looking against the clouds, and I am not sure if it is because I am directly seeing UV, whether there is some fluorescence, or whether it’s placebo effect.

pazimzadeh8 days ago
UV index weighs UVB more heavily than UVA. UVB falls much faster than UVA and visible sunlight as the sun gets lower because photons travel through increasingly more ozone and atmosphere. So the higher in the sky the sun is, minus cloud clover, the higher the UV index is.
dlcarrier8 days ago
What your describing sounds a lot like the effect of humidity in the atmosphere. You can't see the humidity itself, but it affects how a smaller percentage of light is scattered, and that you can see, to the point that, when looking out from a high vantage point like a mountain or airplane, on clear dry days you can see further than on clear humid days.
the__alchemist8 days ago
You can use simple heuristics to get a very good idea.

1: How high in the sky is the sun? (Many other factors like time of year, time of day, and latitude feed into this) 2: What is the chance for you at a given time of the sun being blocked by clouds, buildings, etc?

tomasphan8 days ago
I don't think so. If you controlled for temperature and season I bet you wouldn't be able to tell.
magarnicle8 days ago
Maybe how different things look with sunglasses on vs off?

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