The one where Apple decides consent doesn’t matter anymore.

885 points•thatslast•9 days ago•696 comments•

696 comments

vitro9 days ago
Not trying to start flamewars, but more and more I wonder how much are people willing to put up with such practices. On linux for 15+ years and everytime I try to use mac or win, it is an ordeal. And ads. F*cking ads in a system someone has purchased. And spying. Really user hostile environment. No, thank you.
cosmic_cheese8 days ago
Because Linux is full of sharp edges which nobody seems to find it fit to fix.

I’ve been dabbling in Linux since the early 2000s with Yellow Dog, SUSE, and Ubuntu, tried making it my daily driver in the early-mid 2010s, and for the past 5 or so years have been using it in a secondary/tertiary role.

Recently I’ve been trying to move my gaming box from Windows to Fedora (which I’ve found mostly makes the right tradeoffs to suit my preferences). I’ve gotten things to mostly work, including games that have been blockers in the past, but just yesterday my ethernet connection listing disappeared and broke network connectivity. No big deal I thought, just go into settings and add it back, but as it turns out the KDE settings UI for NetworkManager is horrifically flaky and most critically, its add interface wizard doesn’t set correct settings for a successful connection. No, you have to drop down and use nmcli afterwards to fix things because the UI also doesn’t surface the right checkbox. I wouldn’t have even figured that out if it hadn’t been for a chatbot’s assistance.

This is the exact sort of time-burning nonsense that isn’t a problem on either of the commercial platforms that I tend to encounter under Linux. Is this single instance going to push me to reboot that box back into Windows? No, but if issues like that keep cropping up eventually one will become the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Desire to avoid continued frustration will win over the logical portion of most peoples’ brains.

abustamam8 days ago
While I dont disagree, Mac and Windows also have their own sharp edges that for some reason no one finds fit to fix even though they get paid millions of dollars to maintain the software. The other day my mom told me her Bluetooth speaker no longer worked on her windows laptop. I was like, ok, lets try the normal troubleshooting steps. Turn it off and on again. Restart computer. Unpair and repair. But I couldn't unpair. It just said no.

I installed ChatGPT on her laptop and allowed it to run a certain subset of shell commands and it finally worked.

If im gonna have to muck around in the terminal to do the most basic of tasks, I may as well use Linux so I actually have a semblance of ownership on my computer.

Zak8 days ago
Everything is full of sharp edges. It's just a matter of which ones are more painful to you.

The author's inability to uninstall or fully disable AI features is one for Mac OS. Window management is a common one for people used to other systems.

Windows has many, with (again) AI features that are hard to get rid of, and attempts to coerce users to create an online account being two of the most prominent lately.

So yeah, KDE's NetworkManager frontend is a little janky sometimes, and they should fix that. Is it worse than trying to coerce the user into using services they don't want to? For some people, probably. For me, no.

0x1ch8 days ago
Inversely, I've ran KDE on bleeding edge for three years now and have only ran into a handful of bugs, and nothing critical that required me to drop to a terminal to fix. The networking issue seems particularly specific and I have never seen this occur across any of my desktop or laptops.
e12e8 days ago
> yesterday my ethernet connection listing disappeared and broke network connectivity

While I'm not deeply familiar with Red Hat/Fedora - I'm curious if you know what happened here? What changed to trigger this behavior?

Looking at a few search results - looks like an upgrade to 44 likely exposed/introduced a bug in power management that result in the Ethernet being turned off, and the kernel mode unloaded?

I'm guessing the intention behind the change was to enable more power saving.

But that is certainly a valid concern with most Linux distros - ocationally an improvement (higher resolution, faster, better color depth console or driver) will mess with bootloader, x/Wayland etc.

Still driver yank isn't unheard of with windows upgrades either. With MacOS I'm just going to assume any os upgrade is likely to cause some issues - even when Apple owns both the hw and os.

weaksauce8 days ago
that's really ignoring two big points. 1. windows and macs don't "just work" either... they have their fair share of pain points that you have to accept and/or workaround. 2. linux is different than windows and is different than macos in the sense that you've spent a long time learning the quirks of windows and macos and have the fixes mostly ready. once you learn the quirks of linux it's basically the same.

After the learning curve of linux desktop(well kde) it's basically the same as macos for me and for most people that would use it. most of the computing is done in the browser and that's basically the same experience in any os.

tomp9 days ago
Because Mac laptops are lightyears ahead of any other hardware.

Build quality (aluminum), charging (magsafe), screen resolution, battery life, noise (or lack thereof), trackpad…

It’s like other vendors aren’t even trying.

Also the OS mostly “just works”, just last week my Linux laptop disabled NVIDIA GPU (and almost bricked itself?? Not sure, had to fix apt) during automated updates

liendolucas9 days ago
Of course it works and is beautiful hardware and all that.

But don't fool yourself. You're subverted to Apple's rules the same as Microsoft users are to Windows.

I prefer to fight a little bit on an update on a unix system on something that is not working 100% to give up choices. When you use Windows, MacOS, Android you do not have choices. Choices are dictated from above, like it or not.

As for me every time I have to interact with something that is not BSD or Linux I suffer miserably.

ravenstine8 days ago
> Also the OS mostly “just works”

A large portion of the HN crowd woefully underrates this aspect of macOS. The types who would get pleasure tweaking their OS and understanding it intimately are overrepresented here, though props to them.

I don't care what people say; macOS is the only OS I've ever used that has never booted to a black/blue screen with relatively cryptic error after performing an upgrade. Not once ever. Windows today is of course abusive to users and shouldn't be used, and as much as I absolutely love Linux as a server OS and for VM appliances, I get no joy whatsoever trying to figure out why the DE stopped working after letting the OS update itself or debugging subpar rendering from the Wayland compositor or X11. (Linux people still tell me this isn't a problem in 2026 but, guess what, my Ubuntu VM hit a black screen a couple days ago after upgrading with no other changes made to the installation, so they're wrong) That and so much graphical Linux software is written with the attitude of "I'm a freak who thinks context menus shouldn't exist so fuck the user and fuck anyone who tells me I'm wrong", yet so many DEs integrate these apps anyway.

The worst thing that macOS has ever overtly done to me is slightly change the look of its interface over the years, which is incredibly minor compared to all the changes that Windows, Ubuntu, Gnome, and KDE have gone through in the last decade. Does it pull lame crap like phone home? Probably, but these days I assume that just about all software thinks it knows better than I and constantly pings cloud servers. MacOS is not really unique in this regard. I will switch to my own Linux if Apple goes down the road of "use our AI or else", but for now I don't really see the venom towards macOS to be justified when it's incredibly easy to prove that the alternatives are usually very poor.

Oh yeah, and the hardware is excellent. (except for the keyboards which need TPU dam covering them or else dust kills them after a couple years)

Silagi9 days ago
This is really the only reason I have a MacOS system around. The M4 Air feels like what I imagined a laptop could be 15 years ago. No fans to block, can grab it and carry it around almost like a tablet, works great as a thin client into a more powerful system over Moonlight, it's light enough that I don't even think about carrying it around in my backpack even when I'm also carrying my work laptop, and it was cheap enough that if anything happens to it I won't be too concerned.

Compared to the last XPS I had, it's substantially better for my use case, since I'll generally be remoting into systems anyway.

ffsm89 days ago
You have an interesting definition of "bricked"

That's defined as "the device has become a brick, cannot be recovered". It was mostly popularized by broken firmware updates which effectively destroyed the device, as it could no longer be salvaged.

You calling a borked package install in userspace almost bricked is telling about your technical capability.

And I agree that people that are basically technologically illiterate should not use Linux.

They could if someone administers it for them, but if nobody can help them - it's just not the right choice.

prmoustache9 days ago
> Also the OS mostly “just works”

Apparently it doesn't judging by the tons of articles published after every macOS update.

> just last week my Linux laptop disabled NVIDIA GPU (and almost bricked itself?? Not sure, had to fix apt) during automated updates

And I am on a run of 11 years of update (since Fedora 25 or 26) without a single issue. Anecdotal evidences are just that. Anecdotal. Some people will have issues, others won't. Putting yourself in a situation where you have less risk of having issues like not using hardware from a company whose drivers are not maintained in the mainline kernel source tree goes a long way.

silverbluep9 days ago
I'm in the same boat; been using linux for the last 15 years. Had to get a mac for work this year due to their logging software not being available on linux.

The laptop quality is great; great sound, battery lasts forever compared to mine (framework). Userspace tools and UI is terrible and have no control over but the hardware and the software integration is top notch. (I live in the terminal, and have nix-darwin to bring my existing setup to mac so it's not jarring most of the time)

Won't look back when I can transition back to linux full time; I'll be so happy. But I can see why people go with apple products. I really hope that ARM laptops become a regular thing.

e12e8 days ago
I really hope arm laptops get full linux support as promised - but never delivered:

https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/jan-2025-state-of-linu...

HumblyTossed8 days ago
> ... but more and more I wonder how much are people willing to put up with such practices.

Apple has rabid fans, they will absolutely put up with this and tell you you're wrong for not wanting to.

john_strinlai8 days ago
i enjoy watching the battles of rabid linux fans vs. rabid apple fans. plenty of entertainment in threads like this.

for some odd reason though, there's not many rabid windows fans.

throw0101a9 days ago
> On linux for 15+ years and everytime I try to use mac or win, it is an ordeal. And ads.

I've been using Linux since the a.out days and MacOS X since the PowerPC days, and I find MacOS less of an ordeal for day-to-day tasks as my terminal/workstation. I sysadmin Linux (and previously also Solaris and IRIX) servers for a living. It's been several years since I had to daily drive a Windows machine (though I've heard PowerShell and WSL2 are pretty good).

I'm not sure what "ordeal" you are referring to. I'm mostly in Terminals SSHing places, so perhaps my work use cases are not 'advanced' enough to bump into them? (I also use macOS for my personal systems.)

Coeur9 days ago
Author claims the system setting "Privacy & Security > Apple Intelligence Report > Report Duration" with its 3 options [Off | 15 minutes | 7 days] sends that data to Apple with that frequency. This is wrong - this is a transparency report so that you as a user can see everything that is getting sent to Apple as a part of Apple Intelligence. Nothing additionally is getting sent to apple if you switch this away from "Off".

It's placed right next to a similar report for the user to see which apps generally connect to the internet and to which domains.

Basically, the main point of the article, "I discovered that macOS 15.3 had enabled a feature that was phoning home every 15 minutes with personal data" is not true.

makeitdouble8 days ago
The main point of the article is not the report duration toggle, it was the whole activation of Siri and Apple Intelligence.

The author turned it off in a previous version, and as they updated their OS it got turned on again (the "Apple said yes" part of the title)

iAMkenough8 days ago
Worth noting that this “report” can only be viewed through a json data export file, which the average Apple user has no idea how to interpret.

It is designed to not be user-friendly.

> Nothing additionally is getting sent to apple if you switch this away from "Off".

Another way of saying this is “personal data is still being sent to Apple if you switch this to off.”

true_religion8 days ago
Alas for Apple in this era of AI dumping that file into a chatbot will give you a fully interactive experience to go through the data.
hosteur9 days ago
IF this is true apple has done a horrible job at explaining what this is.
devindotcom8 days ago
that's not the main point of the article

that's not even the topic of the article

that refers to a post from 2025 that he links to. this is clear from the first sentence of the article. I suspect maybe you didn't actually read the article and spent more time writing this erroneous comment than you might have reading the article.

newtonsmethod8 days ago
This is literally the main point of the article: "The nice thing about keeping a blog is that I can say at precisely 9:51am, Wednesday 5th February 2025, I discovered that macOS 15.3 had enabled a feature that was phoning home every 15 minutes with personal data. And that I said “no” and turned it off."
rozenmd9 days ago
You ever notice how Apple never really lets the user say "no" to their nudges?

It's always "maybe later" and never "no seriously, I don't want this, go away"

Phemist9 days ago
I don't have a solution, but on this topic I let Fable write a browser extension I called "Nee, krijg de tering". It's "No, fuck off" in English, but the Dutch feels more visceral for me. It's really rough, but it tries to find these "Maybe later", "No, thank you" etc. buttons and replace the No button.. I guess it's kind of self-explanatory. Does not really do anything, but it is cathartic (and also messes with a lot of UIs to the point where unfortunately the blocklist of domains this should not be used on is growing a lot :'( ).

I feel this pattern is really abusive. Like I am offering to slap you in the face, giving you two answer options: Yes and "Maybe later/no, thank you". As though you have any obligation to be forced to answer this question again at some late time, or to be very polite while you refuse to be slapped in the face. The correct answer is obviously "No, fuck off".

Freak_NL9 days ago
Sensible. Add in a 'Nee, flikker op met je kutcookies' button for cookie consent banners, and you're golden.

This 'maybe later' dark pattern seems to have gained so much traction that UX folk just use it because everyone uses it. There is probably some handwavy reason for it that amounts to not wanting to give the user the feeling they are doing something definitive, but it just ends up being another grain of sand on the micro-annoyance pile of today's tech.

card_zero9 days ago
(lit. "No, get the tuberculosis".)
someguyiguess8 days ago
I don’t speak Dutch but I agree. The Dutch version sounds way better.
cheschire9 days ago
I’ve noticed that most companies do that, not just Apple.
factorialboy9 days ago
Apple claims to be the privacy king. They deserve scrutiny.
javcasas9 days ago
Microsoft pioneer it with "ask again in 30 minutes". Or maybe someone else, can't tell for sure who was the original bastard.
mbirth8 days ago
Or the EU with their online chat control. First round they couldn’t get a majority. Then, they sneakily turned it around so people had to vote to NOT want it. The day they did the second vote, many were on holiday and thus it passed.
m4638 days ago
Apples sets the example.

a bad example from apple becomes the status quo for other companies.

frizlab9 days ago
Most companies did that before Apple, yes. I hate that trend.
aranelsurion9 days ago
I have this one notification asking me if I want to enable the Personal focus when I’m at home. I don’t want my iPhone to care if I’m at home or not, so the past two years whenever it pops up I click Later.

It will probably never stop asking.

jacquesm9 days ago
It will. Once you accidentally mis-click once and then suddeny there is no way to back out of it.
thrw874739393879 days ago
Not sure about the focus pop up but most/all of Apple’s other nags (like set up Siri, try Apple Music and the like) go away permanently if you go to the settings app and click “later” from there (as opposed to the button in the pop up which has the exact same label).
dizhn9 days ago
Google Play Store has a notification to enable notifications. You didn't read that wrong. It shows a badge and everything. I said no for years except that last time. Now I can't find how to turn it off again.
nozzlegear9 days ago
You can delete the Personal focus.
throw0101a9 days ago
> It's always "maybe later" and never "no seriously, I don't want this, go away"

No? When I'm asked about Apple Pay on an iPhone, it says "Maybe later". In the Settings it has reminder, and if I go in and say "No" it never pops up ever again (maybe on a iOS major version upgrade?).

Generally with Apple it's one "Maybe later" with a reminder flag set someplace, and then that's it.

mthoms8 days ago
It's slowly getting worse. For instance, the update nag for Pages and Numbers Applications towards their newer subscription-capable equivalents can't be disabled in the MacOS UI. Selecting "Not Now" still results in the nag appearing every. single. day.

The frog is being slowly boiled.

qwerpy8 days ago
My favorite one on iPhone is the Apple Health app. Marginally useful to track some trends, so I was using it occasionally. Every 2 weeks it will nag you to "Make sure the Health features on your iPhone and Apple Watch are set up the way you want them" with a banner that takes up 1/3 of the screen. There's not even a "maybe later". No matter what you do, it comes back every 2 weeks. Sure, I can "just" close it. After 5 years, I've closed this stupid nag close to 150 times.
thunfischtoast9 days ago
This hostile behavior has unfortunately grown over the years. Notice how often you cannot really unsubscribe from newsletters, because clicking the small link in the email will only unsubscribe you from 1 of 25 "topics" or whatever and they will gladly re-define the "topics" every 6 months and re-enable them all.
account429 days ago
If you are using a big tech mail service like Gmail then just mark them all as spam. If you run your own, block the whole domain.
downsplat9 days ago
If you want to own your computer, linux is where it's at. Windows is rusty iron chains and MacOS's are gold-plated silver pretending to be gold, but they're still chains.
Gareth3219 days ago
I would love to move my gaming PC to Linux but until the kernel devs permit kernel-level anti-cheats, or an equivalent, I refuse to give up games that I love. It's nearly impossible to play multiplayer games now without KLAC. The cheating is out of control.

Unfortunately this is an ideological hill that many Linux devs are willing to die on, so we're at an impasse. Valve claimed to be working on a solution, and if there is any company which can negotiate an accord, it's them.

account429 days ago
It's very fortunate that Linux devs do not tolerate this DRM crap. What you are asking for is to turn Linux into another Windows, at which point there is not point.

If you're not willing to stop using harmful software that's your problem.

And let's not forget that cheating in online games is only an issue because companies have co-opted what was a social activity between people you know (or at least can get to know) into a more profitable asocial e-peen measuring contest between randoms.

aspbee5559 days ago
I recently started playing a game that installed "anti-cheat" software that has done absolutely nothing to stop the amount of cheating in the game but it has made my Debian desktop unstable with random gnome and application crashes caused by their poor software. I never had crashes until that garbage got installed. It works exceptionally hard at preventing me from streaming my games I used to not have an issue with

kernel level invasive garbage would be beyond destructive and still not solve the problem

watermelon09 days ago
> The cheating is out of control.

There are hardware cheats that are not detectable by KLAC, so it doesn't solve the problem, just improves the situation.

The only way to avoid cheaters is to play with people you trust.

jerf9 days ago
What you can not give up owns you.

If you are fine with that, fine.

If this post bothers you and you feel the need to defend yourself against it or something, realize I'm not the one making it true. Nothing you say to me can change this.

TonyStr9 days ago
It's worth having a look at https://areweanticheatyet.com/. I found that the most of the games I play which use anti cheat work on Linux. It's also not hard to dual-boot windows as a backup, though I haven't had a use for my windows partition yet.
1970-01-018 days ago
And chains of Linux have links that break when you update them, or sometimes they just aren't compatible with random metals: "galvanized chains are planned in a future release, please donate"
ocd9 days ago
I don't know if I would say this as much anymore except for Linux distributions steering away from Red Hat/IBM or Canonical attempts at replacing traditional methods, or the BSDs that aren't necessarily in agreement with more recent developments either.

I certainly would not feel I owned my system if I accepted the full suite of attempts by these companies to replace and subvert existing standards. I do feel I have control with non-systemd init and service management, and source based packaging.

liendolucas9 days ago
FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD are your friends too!
Matl9 days ago
Let me know if any of them work well on a laptop that's never than 5 years old.
dcow8 days ago
I don't know what metric Apple implemented that has caused these engagement spam prompts (ads) to appear in their platform, but I want none of it. I've turned Siri off in the latest macOS and iOS because it's so damn slow. I'm bullish on local LLM compute but Apple it's not ready yet or not in the way you've integrated into the user interface! When I am attempting to search for an app on my system I don't want an AI response that takes 2 seconds to start. I want to see the filtered list of apps immediately. When I want to search a term I want the results immediately with any slow AI interpretation fed in asynchronous. It's painful as hell to try and use the new Siri and be resigned to wait a few seconds for any sort of answer. The worst part is you have to wait 2 seconds and then 98% of the time Siri is wrong our outdated and you have to redo the query somewhere else. When it became more convenient to jump into chatgpt or claude I pulled the plug on the new Siri.

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