A new study examining online opt-in polling finds that while removing bogus respondents generally improves data quality, no single method reliably solves the problem.

61 points•luu•9 days ago•37 comments•

37 comments

0points8 days ago
And here I was thinking this was proved beyond any reasonable doubt when 4chan users spoofed the Time Magazine person of the year poll of 2009 to spell out "MARBLECAKE, ALSO THE GAME" by the initials of the top winners:

https://techcrunch.com/2009/04/27/time-magazine-throws-up-it...

Or when Kim Jong Un won in 2012, spelling out "KJUGASCHAMBER":

https://observer.com/2012/12/4chan-successfully-votes-kim-jo...

hyperpape8 days ago
You're half right, half not.

This is evidence, but it would be a mistake to think that high profile online contests would have the same dynamics as low profile online polling. 4chan is characterized by an insane level of effort on the specific jokes that they care about. But they don't care about a random poll nearly as much as they care about big stunts like this.

nemomarx8 days ago
Of course, but a low profile poll also needs less effort to manipulate, so it scales down for both ends.
aniviacat8 days ago
Online polls being easy to manipulate makes it so weird to me that the European Central Bank made an online poll on what the new Euro bank note design should be. (Participants did not have to identify themselves in any way.) I wonder if the results will at all be taken into consideration in the following decision-making process.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2026/html/ecb.pr2609...

account428 days ago
In that case there was heavy pre-selection und strict rules for submissions even before that. So they were probably fine with any of the presented choices winning and the "poll" is really just PR.
rhdunn8 days ago
Or Boaty McBoatface winning the name of a research ship (given to a submarine on the ship).
dcminter8 days ago
In fairness I think a lot of people (me included) genuinely thought that would be an entertaining name for the ship, so the polling result wasn't necessarily wrong per se.
alchemism8 days ago
At the time, we ended up with a conference room with the same name, after an office vote.
c4rnifex7 days ago
Those were not bogus respondents, just silly ones.
noduerme8 days ago
The bit about 10% of respondents claiming they had visited the International Space Station was funny. Reminded me of this nugget[0], which for people unfamiliar with the subject doesn't mean that 20% of Jews believe in Jesus... it means that 20% of the respondents to the poll were either deranged or confused, and self-identity as Jewish for no clear reason. It's analogous to "1 in 5 vegans say they eat meat."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jews-for-jesus-poll-15-of-jewi...

Maxamillion967 days ago
Could be a combination of messianic Jews and some Jewish people assuming that the question is about the historical yeshua
noduerme7 days ago
Righht, which is about as accurate as checking the box that you're Native American because your grandpa said you might be 1/16th Cherokee.

Assuming an identity doesn't make it your culture, right? It says more about the person who assumes it. Messianic Jews are a form of bonkers identitarians who existed even before the current fad.

No, there's no quotient of Jewish people who would take the question of belief in Christ to mean "do you believe Jesus was an historical person who walked around Samaria in sandals". Pretty much all Jews agree that Jesus was a real renegade rabbi who wore shoddy footwear. The definition of being Jewish is that you don't believe he was the Messiah, because the Messiah hasn't arrived yet. Anyone who clicks the buttons that they're Jewish and that they believe in the divinity of Jesus is clearly a throwaway on the survey.

antonvs8 days ago
Something like 290 people have visited the ISS. If they all answered the survey and if the survey size was around 2900, then the 10% figure would be correct.
JimDabell8 days ago
sdcfgy8 days ago
Having dealt with this before we always put trap questions in polls. Filtered 3-7% of respondents.
noduerme7 days ago
Just a throwaway kinda funny story that's obliquely related to this. I'm not a pollster, I'm a developer. I was tasked maybe 10 years ago with creating a feedback survey that a hospitality company wanted to email to customers after their visit. It was a mix of yes/no, rate 1-5, and free writing questions, all optional.

The responses got stored in a database, as well as being emailed raw to the relevant managers. The numerical responses could be quantified and tracked over time, but there was pretty much no standard of measurement for the hundreds of thousands or millions of free writing boxes over the years.

A year ago I set up a small locally run classifier model to back test and "score" all that stuff, and to try to reveal patterns that might have been hidden.

The classifier did turn up a bunch of sets of complaints that had been overlooked by upper management. But even more so, it flooded the company with false positives of negative reviews.

It turns out that a lot of positive reviews include false-negative idiomatic expressions like "killer service" or "it beat the shit out of staying at...", which the classifier considered extremely negative.

Just a warning to anyone who thinks LLMs will help clarify the user's intent... they won't. This really makes me ponder the value of putting faith into the voodoo of the LLM's probability metrics, a la Jev. I think you may just be betting on a derivative of a fundamentally broken system, where trusting some early underlying abilities leads you to lean on a confidently presented but ultimate unsupported probability number you want to bet on, but which has no mathematical relationship to any real probability.

tokai8 days ago
I cannot find the paper again, but a small group of women giving birth in the US healthcare system do self report as virgins. There is not protecting for misunderstandings or malicious intent, even in person.
tokioyoyo8 days ago
From time to time we've battled multiple ideas around polling and tech within my friend circles, because there really isn't "reliable" way of knowing "what people want" when it comes to government's decision makings. It's such a hard "reach and incentives" problem, that asking for an opinion, might change the opinion itself as well, depended on the questioning. That being said, it would be cool to see real opinions of people on general matters, rather than heavily sampled versions of it.

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