152 points•simianwords•9 days ago•162 comments•

162 comments

rkagerer9 days ago
The right way to do this is to create an API or MCP or whatever catering to bots, and implement corresponding terms in your legal agreements (i.e. after approving a bot to interact with us, you're responsible for purchases it makes), along with some limits to prevent runaway shopping when Muse decides to binge.

Less friction = more shopping = more profits.

That used to be a concept companies like Amazon understood well. (As well as companies like Google in the context of web browsing and keeping it user-friendly as opposed to user-hostile).

If the bots mean customers are getting a better deal elsewhere, then you're doing something wrong elsewhere in your business model and need to go address that. Or eventually free market economics will, no matter how big an artificial moat you try to build.

wdr19 days ago
> The right way to do this is to create an API or MCP or whatever catering to bots, and implement corresponding terms in your legal agreements (i.e. after approving a bot to interact with us, you're responsible for purchases it makes), along with some limits to prevent runaway shopping when Muse decides to binge.

From Amazon's perspective, that would be very much the wrong way.

Amazon's concerns here aren't technical. It's entirely about being disintermediated.

steve19779 days ago
But how can they serve product suggestions this way?
simonw9 days ago
Right. Agents represent a direct attack on a significant portion Amazon's revenue model.
cyanydeez9 days ago
I asked this in another thread: who benefits from all these bot integrations?

It's not the consumers of the AI, or the consumers of the real businesses? It just seems like everyone things "if they build it" it'll come.

But it's clear Amazon cares about how it's costomers have to view all the items as both upsells and advertising, and a bot is going to either be _really_ into it or act much like ublockorigin does.

But either way, no company making money on costumer direct sales sees a real benefit to allowing a bot to easily bypass all the necessary details.

Whether it's advertisement, liabilities, manufacturer's recommendations; a bot will ignore these things and generate a costumer expectation that suddenly the producer has to live up to.

Then you'll tell me: YEAH, that's why you need a MCP friendly website.

And I'll tell you: that's how the mafia works.

novok9 days ago
The AIs are also providing the product suggestions, and it comes from what data they are given from their searches. I think they can put 2 and 2 together on how to make that happen with the right MCP response bodies.
nsvd29 days ago
If Amazon doesn't want to offer agent-first shopping I'm sure someone else will come along and eat their lunch. Adapt or die.
SoKamil9 days ago
API or MCP that does context injection and forbids stripping it in ToS.
theturtletalks9 days ago
I’m actually making this:

https://marketplace.openship.org

It’s an interoperable marketplace that uses MCP-UI to connect to seller websites directly. It brings the storefront and cart directly into the chat.

krunck9 days ago
Nice. That would allow people to create alternative interfaces for humans (like me) who absolutely HATE Amazon's web interface.
Terr_9 days ago
They will absolutely put something in to prevent you from doing that, too much of their profit relies on the experience you hate.
carlosjobim9 days ago
Amazon is only an interface to purchase products made by other companies (except for Kindle devices).

Your alternative interfaces exist and have always existed: Go to a physical store, order by phone, order through the OEM website, order through an Amazon competitor, etc.

rr8089 days ago
It makes total sense for Amazon to block agents. It sucks having to manually check multiple sites for prices and delivery of something you want so is easier just to use Amazon which is usually very good. If people start using agents Amazon is less likely to get the sale and are more vulnerable to competition. Better to kill this trend off asap.
tantalor9 days ago
Sounds like Amazon is trying to use its monopoly position to give it an competitive advantage over smaller stores.
carlosjobim9 days ago
Monopoly is a word that has a real meaning, and not a blanket term for companies you personally don't like and not even a blanket term for big companies.

Amazon has nothing even approaching a monopoly. You can go right now to a store built from bricks and purchase goods.

brookst9 days ago
I don't think it does make sense. I think Amazon is way overestimating brand loyalty, and underestimating how much of their success comes from being a one-stop shop for everything.

I'm using Claude for everything from finances to dinner planning to project planning. If Amazon doesn't let Claude search and buy, I'm not abandoning Claude, I'm abandoning Amazon.

As long as my actions are as simple as possible, I don't care whether Claude is searching 5000 online retailers or only 4999, minus Amazon. I'm certainly not going to say "ok, this project requires buying 13 things for about $500, but I don't see amazon in the list, so let me go manually search for each one on Amazon and see if they might have a better price or something."

This is Walmart / Apple Pay all over again. Yes, near-monopolies, lots of power. But they got there by making things easy for consumers. Making things difficult to force consumer behavior never ends well.

gjsman-10009 days ago
Most people don't have the disposable income to ever let an agent casually make a purchase for them.
lucumo9 days ago
I always check Google before Amazon, because it's impossible to find anything on Amazon. Amazon is a bit like the bargain bin of a DYI shop. If it's immediately visible it's okay, of not, don't bother searching.

Half the time I can't even find the category page. And if I do find it, the filters will just be useless anyway.

Buttons8409 days ago
In general, preventing consumers from having fully featured AIs (especially local ones) will be worth about 10 trillion dollars to companies. That's my prediction.

Amazon is one example. If my basement AI drives my browser and never clicks an ad, Amazon loses big.

Or, the ad industry in general -- imagine the basement AI filtering out all ads at the analog level so nobody in my house ever sees an ad, and no software update can change that.

Or other optimizations. Right now companies enjoy a power imbalance because they have people who ruthlessly optimize 24/7 to save a buck. I can't do the same, because I have to work, and also prefer to spend my personal time with family -- a foolish thing to do in a capitalist society, at least from a capital perspective. Imagine I have an AI wheeling and dealing on my behalf 24/7 too. Especially in an age of online shopping and product deliveries, my AI will absolutely order from your competitor to save a penny, my AI will absolutely spend 400 hours disputing a medical bill I don't think is right, barely an inconvenience to me.

awongh9 days ago
One of the optimistic aspects of what's happening is that it doesn't seem like the leading model capabilities are outpacing the more open ones by that much- that just as a general principal there are pretty ok models relatively close behind the best ones.

This could mean the long term viability of my open claw bot to shop for me- that openai / google etc won't control AI, and I'll still just be able to use a model via API to do what's actually in my own self-interest.

nancyminusone9 days ago
The ads (in general) will be redirected to where you will see it, regardless of whether or not Amazon allows bots. You don't think you're getting off that easily, do you?
fastball9 days ago
Amazon is not usually very good anymore, quality has suffered massively.
herpdyderp9 days ago
I still prefer the Amazon shopping experience to anything else, unless I already know the product is available locally. The primary quality problem I've run into is the quality of the products themselves.
majorchord9 days ago
Why is it even Meta's job to announce that an AI agent is being used? Is there a law that actually forces them to make that known?

Otherwise people could just use local agents on their own machine controlling their existing browser/logins as they likely already do, without issues.

swatcoder9 days ago
That's irrelevant from Amazon's perspective. If an agent is popular enough and has some fingerprint they can identify, they have a strong incentive to block it.

Agents that scrape and digest web data are entirely anathema to brand-reliant and advertising-reliant vendors and marketplaces. Even human assistants could be trusted to develop brand attachment and respond to advertising meant to shape their preferences. And while LLM agents are still manipulable, that's a frontier that nobody really knows how to navigate effectively yet, at least not to the degree of optimization modern vendors and marketplaces (especially Amazon) have acheived.

It's quaint to imagine what AI agents might do for consumers in the naive internet that preceded their emergence (if you ignore their vulnerabilities and flaws), but that's not what they'll be able to achieve as that same internet responds to them -- at least not at Meta scale. It's not very different than how social media companies once offered, and then aggressively withdrew and policed, API's to their graphs and feeds. Those open API's simply aren't compatible with the business objectives that keep these companies running, no matter what cool and profoundly user-friendly things could be built on them.

The same kind of incompatibility applies to AI agents when it comes to e-commerce. It won't be a permitted thing until, and except for where, vendors/marketplaces can assert control over the agents themselves and manipulate them to ends comparable to what they can achieve with human consumer sentiment already.

awongh9 days ago
What's crazy is that the ToS is basically, "allow us, Amazon, to give you algorithmically higher prices- and if you try to circumvent that, you can't buy from us anymore".

I think the arguments for these kinds of near-monopoly companies being true market-driven capitalism seem more and more false.

The idea that Amazon will tell you that you don't even own the right to your own shopping experience tells you everything you need to know. Apple owns your device and Amazon owns the right to show you whatever price/product they want, regarless of your search intent.

Terr_9 days ago
I sometimes look around at people proposing technical solutions for these political/legal/economic problems, and think: "Was I that naive X decades ago, or were things really different then?"
joquarky9 days ago
And let's not forget that the browser is already considered to be a user agent.
esafak9 days ago
What do you mean? Declaring the agent is transparency. You should be congratulating Meta for their rare good deed.
JumpCrisscross9 days ago
I guess it’s more that Amazon’s server queries for an answer and intentionally obfuscating a bad one comes across as lying.
fnordpiglet9 days ago
I ask this in every thread on muse / OpenClaw / whatever platform. I’ve never gotten a clear answer beyond “yeah me too”:

Does anyone have any meaningful use cases that have actually improved your life in some measurable way?

I’ve tried hard and beyond filling out some tedious forms in about the same time and energy as just doing it myself, I’ve not personally. I’ve tried hard. So I figure it’s probably my lack of creativity given the prevalence of fans. But every time I ask, I get no meaningful responses. So it makes me wonder if all the fans are just product managers on those products?

brookst9 days ago
In the past few days:

- Dusted off a 3d printer that wasn't being used enough, largely because of the tax of setting up profiles for materials and each print. That was fun once, I'm too busy now. Was able to get claude to use MCP and configure the slicer just right for the job and filaments.

- Needed to get IPTV/etc set up for football season. If you've done this you know what a pain it is, how EPG's don't always work right, finding the 50 channels you care about out of 80k channels is a nightmare, etc. Pointed claude at my utility server, it got Dispatcharr configured, wrote scripts to parse channel guides from sources not covered in the EPG, scheduled to update daily, deployed.

- I'm considering getting back to 3D printed clay, which is fun but challenging. Based on a thread here on HN, had claude go investigate using FPGAs (which it would program) for a realtime flow modulation system that would remove the variability from slight changes in viscosity within a batch of clay. Not sure I'll pull the trigger but I have a much deeper understanding of the solution.

- Realized I was paying like $30/mo to RocketMoney and Copilot (finance, not MS), for rare usage and basically just occasional "find subscriptions I forgot about" usage. Got claude connected to plaid via MCP, found more than those other two ever did, got it to set up cron to send me email weekly with current subscriptions and any price changes.

That's literally in the past 4-5 days. I find great value there, YMMV of course.

fnordpiglet9 days ago
I do all these things but use codex, which lets me use git for settings etc and I end up building software I can re-use. Am I wrong?
malshe9 days ago
> Got claude connected to plaid via MCP

I would like to check this out. My expenses are getting out of hand.

vineyardmike9 days ago
I find it useful, so here are some concrete examples from last few days.

As a baseline which many skeptics will have a hard time accepting for their own usage - I think there is a correlation between utility and trust (even which is not truly earned). If you don't let it capture memories and learn about you, and you don't connect it to external tools like email, it's less useful. But I think of it usually like a ChatGPT w/ extra tools and knowledge.

I just moved, and last night I asked my agent how to test how safe the soil in my (urban) garden was, and it found some warnings from my city government, and suggested a particular test service that is available in my area. Since it knows exactly where I live, it was able to find recent warnings of contamination in my neighborhood, and suggest specific chemicals to test for.

Additionally, I give it (read only) access to my email, and it'll ~2x a day notify me of some important email. I'm working with a contractor, and getting emails from them bumped, or getting emails about AWS usage alerts pulled out of inbox and notify me directly is super helpful for filtering the noise of my crazy email volume of 99% spam.

Also, as others have said, it's easy to take a picture of a flier, and say "add to my calendar".

98codes9 days ago
At home? Not really, no.

At work? I've got ADHD, so the idea of making a to-do list is fine but keeping it up to date was a challenge. I've created a set of agentic skills that comes through the last 36 hours of emails, meetings, chats, and gathers up all the work I volunteered to do (or was told to do), triages them across urgency/impact, and sorts them into Do/Defer/Schedule/Delegate piles.

Last, I created an app to give a UI to this data to see and act on it all, including a way to flag a to-do that was found and enter why I thought the status or categorization was wrong. On the next run, a review skill reads those comments, makes changes to the other skills accordingly, and sends me an email with details of the changes, and the commit I can use to roll back the change if I'd like.

I've been running it since April and while there were a lot of updates at first, I haven't had to flag anything for review in months, and I get to feel a whole lot better about managing my to-do pile.

I'm looking at open-sourcing it, but since I created it with work resources on work time, I need to jump through a few hoops first.

mariusae9 days ago
For myself, it's been super helpful in at least two ways:

1) Staying on top of my kid's school obligations, homework, etc. School Learning Management Systems are a hot mess, and I use agents to consolidate and collate, to keep track of the homework that has been done, what needs to be done, and even pre-grade homework to give feedback (most of the work is done on digital platforms too). It's been immensely time saving for these kinds of things. 2) Multiple instances of watching things passively: hotel room prices, availability of tickets, finding the best place to sell things online. In general things that require a lot of browsing, collating, and watching. These are the kinds of things that specialized software products could do as well, but with an agent they are just a prompt away, and you get exactly what you want. (More or less.)

rkagerer9 days ago
As someone who doesn't have kids and was last in school decades ago....

Do those School Learning Management Systems tell you everyday what homework your kid is expected to complete? Do you feel such a granular degree of monitoring and direction has impacted your child's opportunity to build character, intrinsic responsibility and self-management skills?

When I was a kid, teachers gave out assignments, and the student was responsible for keeping track of them, staying on top of progress, and handing in by the deadline. If a problem arose that wasn't an isolated incident or resolvable directly between the student and teacher, the feedback would flow at a much higher level e.g. scheduled parent-teacher interviews or via a phone call.

And what do parents do who don't accept the terms and conditions of said educational platforms? (e.g. due to overly broad privacy clauses or one-sided indemnities and the like)

Freak_NL9 days ago
Keeping track of your kids' homework is your concern? Doesn't it only become your concern, briefly, when the school contacts you about your kid not getting their homework done?
strulovich9 days ago
- find piece to buy to repair an appliance

- travel research for places where I need an apartment with requirements one cannot just filter for

- gardening tips based on photos of my plants

- financial planning (similar tips to what I would get for more money, without paying per hour until I know much more)

- take photo of all physical spam and have me removed from the list

and many more…

If the access to this product went away I will survive, but it will be annoying and waste my time.

fnordpiglet9 days ago
But aren’t all of these currently fully achievable with normal chat these days?
malshe9 days ago
I don't care about Meta even one bit so more power to Amazon. At the same time, Amazon is going downhill at an alarming rate. Is anyone else annoyed by the no name brands flooding every product listing there? There is no way to even enunciate the freaking names! How am I supposed to trust them?

The other issue is overpromising delivery times and vastly underperforming once the order is placed. The worst is when I purchase something that I want urgently. Let's say the price is $23. Amazon suggests buying something cheap to make it $25 and get overnight delivery. So I add some Chobani product from Amazon Fresh. The next morning I wake up to see Chobani delivered while the item I want is delayed until the next day. This has happened 3-4 times now so I have become wiser. But what a crappy customer experience from Amazon!

still-learning9 days ago
Do Amazon Fresh purchases count towards the $25? I've noticed that only specific prime only thinks count towards it most of the time.
malshe9 days ago
It's possible that it's location specific. We have a Whole Foods nearby so Amazon invariably shows me Amazon Fresh products. I remember once I even added a lime to the cart because my total was $24.99 and it wanted me to make it $25.
markdown9 days ago
Amazon is basically a frontend for AliExpress, with some US products thrown in to keep people clicking.

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