38 points•sbulaev•11 days ago•67 comments•

67 comments

andsoitis11 days ago
The headline invites the reader to think these liabilities are concealed from investors, but they're not. Deeper in the article it talks about how credit-rating agencies explicitly includes in their modeling.

The guarantee allows lenders to behave partly as though they're lending to NVIDIA, Meta or Broadcom rather than to an AI startup or single-purpose data-center company.

The interesting question isn't "Is the debt hidden?" (it isn't), but is who ultimately owns the downside risk of the AI infra boom?

More interesting headline would be "Big Tech is using its creditworthiness to finance the AI boom without taking on equivalent amounts of direct debt."

delfinom10 days ago
> but is who ultimately owns the downside risk of the AI infra boom?

The US taxpayer for the inevitable corporate bailouts.

andsoitis10 days ago
> The US taxpayer for the inevitable corporate bailouts.

what informs your prediction?

aurareturn11 days ago
Why are people such big opponents of the AI buildout?

I generally don't see many cons to it.

1. Big tech was just using profits to buy back shares before AI build out. Would you rather they buy back shares with their profits or finance the AI build out?

2. If there is an AI bubble, great, when it pops, we'll all have ultra cheap tokens and we'll have all these amazing AI infrastructure built for the next wave of innovation.

3. Even if AI progress stops here and models hit a wall in intelligence, we'll still have AI good enough to solve millennium problems.

My theories on why people are so anti-AI:

1. It threatens their jobs.

2. They want AI stocks to drop so they can buy the dip.

3. Their identity is being challenged because AI makes what they do easier.

carlm4210 days ago
We don't have enough energy production for massive AI buildouts. New energy capacity will not come online fast. National and regional grids will be stressed contributing to impacts on populations and industries. New energy capacity will be expensive and if carbon-intensive will accelerate climate breakdown. Additionally at current fossil fuel prices, energy prices (will) rise dramatically. Currently planned locations for buildouts are suboptimal at best, horrible at worst and vehemently opposed by local populations. That could be NIMBYISM, but in this case it's probably justified: who would want a noisy, ugly-looking grey cube raising electricity prices near their house? And that's just one angle. There are many more. Nothing to do with "AI will take our jobs", that's a pretty low-effort justification/theory.
aurareturn10 days ago
We are building more energy now than ever. AI has forced that. If this AI bubble collapses, we will have plenty of cheap electricity.
blactuary10 days ago
They are getting too big and too cozy with federal govt, making a bailout more likely

They are moving too fast and using too much dirty energy

They are committing crimes to trick people into thinking they've created god

None of your three theories are correct at all

aurareturn10 days ago
Did the federal government bail out dotcom burst? Why and how do you think the government can bail out an AI burst?

Too fast? So it’s getting too smart too fast to you. But at the same time, they are going to need a bailout to you.

I don’t think they’re tricking anyone at all. Most normal people don’t care. They just use AI when it’s helpful to them. It’s only people who are on HN or X who care.

andriy_koval10 days ago
To me its not just about AI, but how they utilize all this financial scenarios to push things absolutely over the top, e.g. fast inclusion into indexes and essentially funding bubble from people's 401k.
aurareturn10 days ago
You mean SpaceX? That’s just one. And it’s Elon. He’s been doing that before AI.
whatevaa11 days ago
What are the benefits to actual people? What you are gonna replace lost jobs with? All electronics with ram or storage is now way more expensive due to AI gobling up everything. And then there are local power grid impact concerns.

Why would you be suprised there is opposition?

aurareturn10 days ago
I’m not surprised there is. I even spelled out why I think there are so many who are opposed.

There is something very contradictory about these posts.

For example, you seem to suggest that it doesn’t benefit people but AI is can also replace workers. So which is it? AI is very useful to people to a point that one person can do the job of many? Or AI is useless?

Do we have mass unemployment because of AI? No. Our unemployment rate has been very low since ChatGPT.

tyyye10 days ago
What about the people who have already lost jobs due to false expectations set via over hyping the tech?

That poster is so clueless.

fragmede10 days ago
People are scared about their future and don't think AI is going to make things better. And who could blame them? A movie that doesn't have any conflict and ends with everyone being happy and everything is nice isn't going to sell a lot of tickets. So we get endless variations of that movie where AI and robots are going to kill us and terminate humanity.

That is the backdrop against which real life AI that's actually happening and is here today has to compete with. If I was in the horse carriage industry when the car came out, I would be up in arms about it as well. People are scared, and rightly so. If I don't have a job, because they don't need me, because AI can do it, then how do I pay my rent or for food? If we lived in a world where we treated poor people well, and they're just down on their luck, they just need a helping hand that we're happy to give. Then the coming jobpocalypse wouldn't be so scary, and people wouldn't be so up in arms against AI. We only have to look at the history of coal miners to realize that there's no one coming to save us though.

Hearing the ghoulish haunting noise that the jet turbines that Elon Musk put down, and thinking: that could be your future; is enough to get everyone and their mom off the couch and dead set against the entire concept. That noise, non-stop, for the rest of forever.

We don't do subtleties at all, because if you give them an inch, they're going to take a mile, so in a different world it would be possible to be pro AI data centers while also being for upholding regulations on water and noise pollution, along with not raising the cost of electricity, but that doesn't seem to be the world we live in. People don't trust their local politicians to make sure that doesn't happen, so I can't blame people for being against AI data center build outs entirely.

aurareturn10 days ago
This is a very honest post.

I think people here have stated a variety of reasons. Many go at it from an economics standpoint saying they are anti-AI because they don't think AI will make a profit because it isn't/won't be that smart.

Yet, you are saying something complete opposite. You're saying that AI could become so smart that it makes many people unemployable.

I think your reason is completely different than just about everyone's here. I think it's more honest. I think people here who hate AI for different reasons actually have the same fear inside but they don't want to admit it for some reason.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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