Measure internet censorship. Contribute to the world's largest open dataset on internet censorship. Install OONI Probe on Desktop and Mobile platforms

221 points•Bluestein•11 days ago•162 comments•

162 comments

mitxela11 days ago
There's a pretty bad bias problem here because the probe app scans domains that are frequently blocked in dictatorships, but doesn't scan domains that are frequently blocked in "democracies", like Anna's Archive. Then it ends up looking like the dictatorship countries have all the censorship.
dijit11 days ago
"democracies" have a separate problem, even if we had true direct democracy (and not representative democracy)- people often conflate what is popular with what is true.

You can see this directly in online forums (including this one), unpopular truths are routinely flagged to the point where it doesn't matter that discussion could have happened, it effectively can't- and not because the points don't make sense or can't be reasoned with... but because it doesn't feel good that it's true.

So, unfortunately, I think censorship is inevitable.. I guess it's better to have censorship from a small group of people for a small group of people instead of having censorship from a small group of people to a nation-wide group of people though.

averysmallbird11 days ago
Scare quoting democracies is probably telling, but OONI absolutely does test content blocked in Western countries. https://explorer.ooni.org/domain/annas-archive.org
vlyan11 days ago
scare quoting """""""""democracies""""""""" is perfectly acceptable when it couldn't be more obvious that those so-called democracies do anything but represent the will of their peoples. do you know anyone who'd voted for having to scan their face to access verboten webseites? to have encryption backdoors in their messengers? to have state-mandated spyware preinstalled on their phones?
majorchord10 days ago
Funny how people block Anna's Archive but never archive.org, which houses the largest centralized collection of warez on the planet. Usenet might have more but it is replicated across the globe.
mitxela11 days ago
It's not in the scan list by default. You can type in any domain and scan it but those are sporadic.

Edit: it must have been added recently since there's proper data now. But most of the CUII list is still not.

Viliam123410 days ago
Just because a comment is factually wrong it does not prevent it from being the #1 comment on HN. It only has to sound contrarian enough.
orbital-decay11 days ago
Internet blocking is a last resort for regimes that can't do anything against the source of the information or intermediaries, but it's a red herring in regimes that can. Anna's Archive has a political position and is one of the very few voices that survived the immense pressure. How many didn't? How many attempts were not performed at all because of it? This suppression is really hard to measure, OONI can't do anything here, it measures blocking. It's very simple to understand.
mitxela11 days ago
It measures blocking in dictatorships, as I just said.
8organicbits10 days ago
The platform is quite open, so you can build whichever tests you want. Personally I run a dockerized ooni via scheduled GitHub actions, which shows blocks impacting GitHub runners. You should be able to see logs from that here, which shows three blocked websites https://github.com/robalexdev/ooni-unattended-action/actions...

You can build your own lists and share them using ooni run: https://run.ooni.org/

sellmesoap10 days ago
Here's my personal benchmark on this public site. Anecdote of 1. Does posting links to these two videos related to health care decisions that were officially approved or denied to people. Get this post... Unalived?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YmOeKahtmdQ

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FRRX0J_TDXY

howunfortunate11 days ago
Hmm.

I'd wager the vast majority of internet censorship is within platform, like that done by Reddit mods.

The most egregious example I've seen in my lifetime was when old Twitter decided to censor a NYPost article, down to blocking sharing in DMs.

It seems that type of example is entirely missed here. Is there any attempt to capture that signal?

eigenspace11 days ago
If you count platform moderation as 'censorship' then there's practically no uncensored public spaces on the internet.

Literally even 4chan has moderation.

Nobody, not even 4chan users, want an actually unmoderated space.

Levitz11 days ago
Moderation as in "You can't call the other posted 'fuckface'" and moderation as in "I will delete every mention of this news story because it's negative to the agenda I want to push" are not, at all, the same thing.

In fact, I wouldn't call the latter "moderation" at all, rather it's mods abusing their power to push political propaganda, but they do it through moderation in terms of action.

NDlurker11 days ago
Some of the moderation is just banning people with differing opinions.
howunfortunate11 days ago
My comment above does not rely on the premise that all moderation is censorship. Only that some Reddit mods engage in censorship.
zrobotics11 days ago
4chan users might want that, but even for the types of people willing to operate a site like that they don't want to be liable for the amount of CSAM, piracy, and other legally objectionable material that would end up on a fully unmoderated site.
analog837411 days ago
I want an unmoderated space. Or rather, I want the tools of moderation to be in the hands of the users instead of a central authority.

Giving an anonymous rando the power to censor my conversation is abhorrent. And it's absurd that most people are ok with that.

thewanderer198311 days ago
Not just reddit mods. Google 2013 Eglin Air Force Base incident reddit.
urbnspacecowboy9 days ago
> old Twitter decided to censor a NYPost article

Again, which article, about what subject?

howunfortunate didn't answer, just deflected:

> Are there NYPost articles you feel people should be prevented from DMing? Or posting, for that matter?

qerghnui's reply was flagged to death:

> Why do you refuse to answer the question?

> The story you are referring to involved the New York Post or its affiliates breaking in to Hunter Biden's laptop (a felony) and publishing his personal correspondence, complete with unredacted phone numbers and email addresses. This violated Twitter's policies against doxxing and dissemination of hacked materials. Characterizing this as censorship is misleading; the story contained no newsworthy information and its publication violated longstanding Twitter policy. It's hard to imagine Twitter functioning without such a policy. I don't see any reason the New York Post should get away with violating it just because it claims to be a newspaper.

> The Wall Street Journal, a Murdoch rag like the Post and hardly known for its liberal bias, declined to publish this information, which is why it wound up in the disreputable Post instead. Respectable journalists have ethical standards. Act like thugs, get treated like thugs.

> P.S. Twitter is free to make whatever editorial decisions it pleases. Trying to make them publish something they don't want to publish is compelled speech. Compelling speech in the name of freedom of speech is hypocritical.

Bluestein11 days ago
As a thought exercise, could it be captured?
howunfortunate11 days ago
Depends on the platform. On Reddit, definitely yes, as almost all censorship is "deletion style" where the target post or comment is initially visible until the mods suppress it.

But your point is well taken, it's definitely more challenging and expensive than what's being done here.

goatsi11 days ago
Join the referral program for a low cost online pharmacy. Post a link on each platform informing the users about the availability of male health products. Measure if it gets removed.
walrus0111 days ago
For everyone in this thread saying "but the platforms!", I don't disagree with you. Extensive censorship exists. But I don't believe that's the intended purpose of this tool and the metrics it collects. It doesn't measure censorship at what we would call layers 4-7 in the OSI model. It's concerned with IP reachability and layer 3. It collects valid data for that purpose.
reisse11 days ago
Do they distinguish between "censored in transit" and "blocked by destination"?

In the last years many sites started to drop/block connections from the countries like China and Russia. It is sad to see how Internet is becoming more and more fragmented.

TaLiTr11 days ago
Many websites block UK IPs rather than comply with some recent KYC laws.
LoganDark11 days ago
The latter one isn't censorship, it's geofencing. Which is incredibly unfortunate (and always has been), but it's not censorship.
sandeepkd11 days ago
I really wonder if anyone installs it on their machine. May be I am one off but I am Hearing about this for first time, don't recognize any of their partners.
thenthenthen11 days ago
I would love to contribute, but i do not think it is a good idea to install and run this in China…enough said. Also i already know the outcome: network is fast, everything is blocked
mitxela11 days ago
Do they arrest you just for trying to load a blocked site?
zaik10 days ago
It's part of nixpkgs so I tried it out. I killed the process when it started writing something big to my disk. Why is it doing that?
8organicbits11 days ago
Many of the partners are country focused but the Tor Project, Citizen Lab, and Internet Society are well known to me.
fnordpiglet10 days ago
Is this an “instantly be arrested by the secret police” app for those where such things are censored?

The glowing reviews would reflect quite the survivor bias.

Read the full thread on Hacker News →

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