163 points•zdw•11 days ago•89 comments•

89 comments

DroneBetter10 days ago
> There was also the Japanese JIS standard keyboard

is a particularly humorous instance of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome

TacticalCoder10 days ago
I never understood people complaining about "ATM machine": I mean, I get it. Everybody knows what an ATM is and we know it's a machine, so it is redundant.

But if I didn't have a japanese keyboard and family living in Japan since 30 years, I wouldn't necessarily know what:

"There was also the JIS keyboard"

would refer to.

While: "There was also the japanese JIS standard keyboard" is crystal clear.

Even if, technically, it's quite redundant.

Another pet peeve of mine: I hate it when articles are full of acronyms without at least the acronym being explained the first time it's used in TFA (The Fucking Article).

At times there are TFAs posted here with so many acronyms that you get comments saying: "I don't know what most of these acronyms mean".

And I regularly have to cut/paste sentences into Gemini and ask it: "Explain the acronyms".

So, even if it's a bit funny, please more "japanese JIS standard". Much more.

abirch9 days ago
What I love about DRY is you have to repeat yourself by explaining DRY means "Don't repeat yourself"
applfanboysbgon10 days ago
I don't think I've ever seen someone do this from both sides of the same abbreviation (eg. Automated ATM Machine) before now, that's quite amusing.
amelius10 days ago
No amount of drooling over Apple keyboards will make me forget that Apple's designers didn't add keys for basic functions such as Copy and Paste, Undo and Redo.
leoc10 days ago
I don't see a clear advantage over the the ZXCV shortcut placement which the Macintosh team chose. (The original Finder had no specific Redo shortcut because it was single-undo and ⌘-Z performed both undo and redo.) Even well-placed dedicated keys on a Xerox-style (or later Sun-style) "fun cluster" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk to the left of the alphabetic cluster would have forced the hand to move further away from the home row. Of course ZXCV is much less well-adapted to the left-handed, but that would probably be true of any dedicated keys as well, unless they were mirrored on both sides of the keyboard.
kps10 days ago
> […] left of the alphabetic cluster would have forced the hand to move further away from the home row.

The Star left cluster are primarily operations that pair the left hand on the keys with the right hand on the mouse. This derives from Engelbart's Mother of All Demos with the left-side keyset paired with the right-side mouse.

Cockbrand10 days ago
The Extended Keyboard II came with a plastic overlay for the function keys. It showed Cut/Copy/Paste for F2/F3/F4 respectively. See https://chrispeak.com/2022/04/08/apple-extended-ii for a photo.

Not sure if this was ever supported system-wide in any way, though.

kps10 days ago
The Extended Keyboard not-II had the words printed below they keys. https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Apple_M0115_top.jpg
spijdar10 days ago
Having seen laptops with dedicated copy/paste/undo/redo keys, I think Apple can be forgiven for not going down the function key rabbit hole: https://pomelo.shockfox.net/pub/img/powerlite.jpg

(Yes, they could have just replaced the "regular" function keys with copy/paste keys, but I feel like that would have gone over about as well as the various times they've, uh, tried to replace the function keys)

amelius10 days ago
The least they could have done was print "Copy", "Paste", etc. on the keys that we now use for those tasks.
cpach10 days ago
Looks like we hugged that poor server to death :-/
eviks10 days ago
They can't, those keys are too far away for such common operations. And Fn keys are just as bad, so replacing with them would also have been a mistake
neilv10 days ago
And there was already precedent:

https://deskauthority.saberkeebs.com/wiki.themk.org/index.ph...

https://deskthority.net/download/file.php?id=59173

Early Mac design was excellent overall, but decided not to include these keys (maybe they were leaning towards Smalltalk-like context menus?), and then seemed to go into more cryptic and power-user in-the-know keyboard direction (like with the 3-icon key including special support for flipping burgers):

https://unsung.aresluna.org/_media/key-symbols-we-lost-to-ti...

bdavbdav10 days ago
At least we get cmd and control as separate keys still, which makes copy/paste/… in a terminal a breeze, without either needing to sacrifice terminal control keys, or remember to use different c/p sequences in different scenarios.
reaperducer10 days ago
I work primarily on Macs, but also have Windows machines on my desk. Switching to Windows, I always have to pause and think, "Wait… I'm supposed to press what to copy again?"

Conflating meta keys with control keys is one of the more pernicious abominations Microsoft saddled on the tech world.

Shift - Control - Meta - Super - Hyper. Each has its place.

Sardtok10 days ago
Aaaah, he's got carriage return and enter mixed up. The whole reason for the symbol being an arrow returning to the beginning of the line, is because it's the return key. I love the Canadian enter symbol, an arrow pointing into a box.
fasola10 days ago
Enter appropriated the same “arrow returning” symbol long ago, and the key is colloquially known more often as Enter these days.
Sardtok10 days ago
Yes, but he calls the enter key return and the return key enter.
cesaref10 days ago
I think back in the day (say the late 80s) it became apparent to those in charge that this new IT thing was going to be very important in the workplace, and that it was going to be important to train up people to operate computers.

Given those in charge were probably one finger typists if that, and befuddled by technology, they would collectively have decided that computers should be standardised so that learnt skills would be transferrable, and therefore they probably imposed ideas like standardised keyboard layouts.

Of course it turned out that the next generation were totally capable of operating computers without any formal training, were totally fine with different operating systems, different keyboard layouts, different applications etc, and so there was probably lots of wasted effort solving a non-existent problem.

cosmic_cheese10 days ago
On the JIS 2003 model, the more traditional Control position is great (it’s how I map my boards) but the Caps Lock positioning is really good too and makes so much sense with how infrequently it’s used. Very little risk of accidentally hitting it. I wonder why more boards haven’t adopted it.

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