The James Webb Space Telescope spots mysterious “little red dots” everywhere. A bold new theory suggests they’re suns dozens of times larger than our entire solar system.

105 points•jandrewrogers•12 days ago•61 comments•

61 comments

jahnu11 days ago
One thing worth noting is our popular notion of what a star seems to be is quite different from what astronomers have.

One example, Canis Majoris has a radius of about 1420 solar radii. But its mass is roughly 17±8 times the mass of the Sun and therefore an average density of 5.33 to 8.38 mg/m3. “It is over 100.000 times less dense than Earth’s atmosphere at sea level.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VY_Canis_Majoris

https://nineplanets.org/vy-canis-majoris/

Sharlin11 days ago
The surface radius of a star is defined based on optical thickness. If you were there, the star would in fact look like a fairly well-defined opaque spheroid with the reported radius. The density of the photosphere plasma is near zero, but there’s a lot of it.
brabel11 days ago
Why doesn’t the stuff just falls in towards the center? It just floats there??
usrnm11 days ago
My layman definition of what a star is is "it's somewhere in the sky and it gives off light". The word "density" wouldn't even come to my mind
kulahan11 days ago
Thanks to blackbody radiation, every human skydiver briefly becomes a star by this definition! ;)

It needs a core generating energy through fusion, which has density requirements, for what it’s worth.

FranOntanaya11 days ago
I always wonder when do they stop considering the outer layers part of the star and not relatively dense solar wind soup. Nobody says Earth has 7000km radius, even tho there's traces of exosphere past 500km.
antognini11 days ago
The outer boundary is the point where a photon has a ~50% chance of escaping without encountering another particle.
chabska11 days ago
The radius is based on visual observation. We have good theories and models about what's happening inside the star. We are quite sure that it's mostly empty space inside the radius. But that's not a good enough reason to say that the star's radius is anything other than what we see through our telescope.
margalabargala11 days ago
> therefore an average density of 5.33 to 8.38 mg/m3

That's nuts. How on earth does fusion happen at that density? Is there a denser core that actually fuses, and the outer fluffy bits just glow from the inner heat?

adrianN11 days ago
Averages are quite misleading. The core is obviously a lot denser. Our sun has an average energy output per cubic meter that is comparable to a compost heap.
lrasinen11 days ago
Average density for non-uniform objects is pretty useless, since the cubic volume scaling makes a mess of things.

As an example, I pulled the stats for an electric locomotive. 19x3x4.4 meters, mass 90 metric tonnes. That's an average density of about 1/3rd of water.

Rygian11 days ago
So a locomotive floats. Interesting.
benji-york11 days ago
Any decent human being would have called these Black Hole Suns.
vardump11 days ago
I just twisted my mouth sides upwards with my fingers to form a smile in agreement.
pixelpoet11 days ago
Sadly, those won't come.
ramraj0711 days ago
By all indications Chris Cornell likely tried to paint some poignantly depressing mindset with that lyric, so its doubly ironic the universe is choke full of it. Or at least was.
ck211 days ago
brabel11 days ago
They are great but you forgot Anton! He definitely belongs with them in my opinion, he is a wonderful person after all :)

Link: https://youtu.be/gUobqtANMfE?si=NVG26d6Aoc2XNEWg

Hikikomori11 days ago
Was also a fan of Anton but professor Dave recently made a video about him.

https://youtu.be/dst-C0IDQRU

blop11 days ago
Anton is definitely wonderful! He explains everything very well with no drama and BS. High information density and yet very clear!
JumpCrisscross11 days ago
Is there an experiment that could resolve this? Literally resolve these objects better, or otherwise distinguish between these hypotheses?

Is there anything behind these objects they could lens?

vardump11 days ago
I wonder if our universe is the experiment to resolve this.
itsalwaysgood11 days ago
We don't have a good fuel source or reason for expansion. We also don't know where all the theorized white holes could be.

To me it's an interesting coincidence, thought description of these objects baffles me.

Unless the universe is recursively within itself: the black hole stars have black holes within them that also exit at the big bang. But then so do all other smaller big bangs we see: exact same exit point and coincidentally, the same moment in time.

Oh, and there is a beautiful symmetry here: only one white hole exists.

One beginning, many endings. It's armchair philosophy but fun to imagine.

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